i gots a question about a 2.3L motor

tsmorrisracing · 10-09-2009

i still have my 2.3L no turbo motor in my stang (been meaning to upload mor pics but i have no time) and i want it to go a little bit faster than stock, i at least want it to go in the early hundreds but, i dont want to spend money out the hoo hah for a turbo.... is there any other mod (bolt on would nice) that does the equalivalent or better than a turbo?

i would appreciate it if someone told me before monday, because thats when i start fixing some components (as in: starter and wiring).

SM90Stanger · 10-09-2009

Would intercooling a N/A motor be helpful? If so, then intercool it and then you can actually call it a real cold air intake!

Steve

85snakeeyes · 10-09-2009

if you intercool a n/a motor.. its called a pre-cooler it is nice it lowers intake temps up to 15% with a standard air to air intercooler.. good stuff even tho it is a bit ricer.. the honda guys do it

tsmorrisracing · 10-10-2009

thanks i will look into it.

b_chandler · 10-10-2009

Stop before you make my head explode!

Think about this for just a little while. An intercooler on a naturally aspirated motor??

Does this actually make sense?

On a turbo application, the air that goes through the compressor side of the turbo gets heated well above ambient air temperature, so you run it through an intercooler that's cooled by air at ambient air temperature to being the intake charge temp down.

So let's remove the turbo from that example. Now you've got air at ambient temp going through an intercooler cooled by air at ambient temp. That's like curing frostbite with a fudgesicle or 3rd degree burns with scalding hot water.

As for the original poster, There's nothing "bolt-on" that's as good as or better than a turbo.

85snakeeyes · 10-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_chandler

Stop before you make my head explode!

Think about this for just a little while. An intercooler on a naturally aspirated motor??

Does this actually make sense?

On a turbo application, the air that goes through the compressor side of the turbo gets heated well above ambient air temperature, so you run it through an intercooler that's cooled by air at ambient air temperature to being the intake charge temp down.

So let's remove the turbo from that example. Now you've got air at ambient temp going through an intercooler cooled by air at ambient temp. That's like curing frostbite with a fudgesicle or 3rd degree burns with scalding hot water.

As for the original poster, There's nothing "bolt-on" that's as good as or better than a turbo.

you make good points.. my view on it (correct me if im wrong) the ambient air your speaking of with out the intercooler is coming from where (under the hood) or even in the fender where at cruising speed with a stock hood the air flow is, well lets just say less than desirable... when you relocate this to the front assuming your using a fmic set up... your 'ambient' air temp is lower.. i mean im just thinking out loud here.. but common sence says unless your intercooler is super cheap or free... or you plan on going to a boosted setup, this is not going to yield any awe stunning horsepower increases... but by the same token it does have a cool look.. just dont pop the hood, or you face the shame of falling victim to the domestic rice stereotypes..

b_chandler · 10-10-2009

As far as air flow into a motor, remember, that the air is drawn in by vacuum, not pushed in by wind. You make improvements to the air path to increase the amount of air a given vacuum is capable of pulling (think sucking through a swizzle stick vs. a drinking straw)

You're not going to cool the air charge down enough to really make a difference.

An intercooler without a turbo is like a pair of a$$less chaps. You can put it on, but everyone's gonna think you're gay.

tsmorrisracing · 10-10-2009

ok then.... i rethought my plans so, if i "do" get a turbo what will i have to change to make it useable??? or will i have to change nothing at all?
would it be usable with a non turbo motor? and like i said i need to know before monday so i can at least talk it over with my dad....(he's a mechanic that does everyday work and race motors)

SM90Stanger · 10-10-2009

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...ted-2-3-a.html
Dude, if this seems over your head, buy a turbo motor and just drop it in.

I'm sorry Chandler... It was just an idea and I have been thinking about intercoolers for the last week as I just picked up a volvo intercooler for my turbocoupe motor. I guess it would be useless as the intercooler actually restricts air flow and when you don't have anything pushing or pulling the air into the engine other than a difference in air pressures, then you are probably going to lose a lot of air going to the engine if you compare it to a straight pipe from the filter.

BUT, I do believe that it would cool the air going into the engine. I believe this is true when the car is in motion and the intercooler is being subject to fresh air. When you are sitting at a stop light then Chandler is correct, the intercooler does nothing. But when air is rushing past the intercooler then it is actually cooling the air going into the intake if the air filter is in the engine bay or the fender. Think about it like if you stuck your arm out the window as you are travelling at 50MPH... your hand gets cold even when it's not cold out!

My problem fixer method would be to buy a cone filter and not intercool it but put the filter in the fender, or even better, in front in the grill opening... Just don't drive too much on the highway as the bugs would pile up and don't drive in the rain.

Steve

:bigth umbsup

b_chandler · 10-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsmorrisracing

ok then.... i rethought my plans so, if i "do" get a turbo what will i have to change to make it useable??? or will i have to change nothing at all?
would it be usable with a non turbo motor? and like i said i need to know before monday so i can at least talk it over with my dad....(he's a mechanic that does everyday work and race motors)

I don't understand your question.

b_chandler · 10-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM90Stanger

BUT, I do believe that it would cool the air going into the engine. I believe this is true when the car is in motion and the intercooler is being subject to fresh air. When you are sitting at a stop light then Chandler is correct, the intercooler does nothing. But when air is rushing past the intercooler then it is actually cooling the air going into the intake if the air filter is in the engine bay or the fender. Think about it like if you stuck your arm out the window as you are travelling at 50MPH... your hand gets cold even when it's not cold out!

Okay. Let's say for the sake of argument that ambient air temp is 100 deg F. You're drawing in 100 deg air through an intercooler that's being cooled by 100 deg air. Yes there's the "cool breeze" effect I mentioned earlier, but it's not enough to make a difference. Take a beer at room temp and point a fan at it. It may get cooler, but it sure ain't cold enough to drink.

Please get this, I'm running out of analogies

SM90Stanger · 10-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_chandler

Okay. Let's say for the sake of argument that ambient air temp is 100 deg F. You're drawing in 100 deg air through an intercooler that's being cooled by 100 deg air. Yes there's the "cool breeze" effect I mentioned earlier, but it's not enough to make a difference. Take a beer at room temp and point a fan at it. It may get cooler, but it sure ain't cold enough to drink.

Please get this, I'm running out of analogies

Yes, I do understand, and this is just for the sake of argument, because arguing is fun! You do agree that it would cool the air to some extent? If you could get an intercooler that has very little restriction, then it could potentially make more horsepower... We really need to do a dyno for this though...

New idea: water cooled intercooler with the water being colder than the ambient air temperature.

Steve, lol

tsmorrisracing · 10-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_chandler

I don't understand your question.

ok what i meant was, would i have to change anything on a nonturbo motor that would be vital for a turbo.......

Green78II · 10-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsmorrisracing

ok what i meant was, would i have to change anything on a nonturbo motor that would be vital for a turbo.......

You need forged pistons. Stock N/A pistons aren't strong enough to take the boost. The complete list of what you need to do can be found here http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...ted-2-3-a.html

SM90Stanger · 10-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by II Crazy

You need forged pistons. Stock N/A pistons aren't strong enough to take the boost. The complete list of what you need to do can be found here http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...ted-2-3-a.html

Technically you don't need forged pistons but it is a good idea to change the pistons if you plan on boosting it more than 5psi. But yeah, if you go into that thread, you will find all of the basic needs for turning your N/A engine into a turbo engine.

Steve