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Old 08-27-2009   #1 (permalink)
5.8capri is offline Rookie


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Default 1987 Thunderbird Turbo coupe. Misses as soon as boost hits, Vain Air Meter?

Car revs great in neutral and up to 3000 rpms when the boost should kick in.but as soon as I hit boost it starts missing and bogging to where it is undrivable. just replaced profile ignition pickup (pip) and Throttle Position Sensor as those were the codes I was getting.
Car still runs the same after changing them.
Reading some previous threads I cam across the Vain Air flow Meter
could this be my problem. I have one ordered but it take forever to get to canada.
Any help please I just bought this car after looking for 5 years.
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Old 08-27-2009   #2 (permalink)
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The first thing to do is check the tune. Cap,Rotor,Wires,Plugs. Most TC problems are ignition related. Use only motorcraft parts and remember the plug gap is .034. Did you adjust the TPS to .94V at throttle closed position?? Do you have any codes now??
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Old 08-27-2009   #3 (permalink)
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I havn't done plugs or wires, or distrubuter cap and rotor. I used some sand paper and cleaned the contacts though. I thought these would be fine seeing as it revs to 300 fine but I will be doing those now tomorrow.
For the Tps I bought a new one and replaced it, I didn't verify that it was correct readings though as I no longer got the code 63.
Now all I get is code 11 which as far as i know means system ok.
That is only in the koeo
When I try the koer test it starts to work but then the reader just shuts right off and wont start again. Ive tried everything to do the koer test but it wont work. Batteries and tester are brand new.
All these sensors are new to me and really overwhelming
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Old 08-28-2009   #4 (permalink)
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11 pass-sep 10 is GOOD. Check or replace the wires. the 2.3 EATS wires and the heat of the turbo pushes them to the limit. I have fixed many a running problem with a wire change. The tps must be set to .90-.97V at closed throttle.
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Old 08-28-2009   #5 (permalink)
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What does fuel pressure do with boost? It should rise 1 psi per every 1 psi of boost.

x2 on the tuneup and setting the TPS.
Courtesy of the SVOCA website:
How do I set my TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) ?

To set the TPS you will need the following tools.
1. Small Phillips screwdriver
2. Digital Voltmeter
3. Analog Voltmeter

The base idle needs to be set properly prior to setting the TPS. see below for instructions on setting base idle

The next thing to do is hook up the analog meter to the green and Black wires. With the key on open and close the throttle body slowly, you should see the needle move in a smooth arc without jumping around. If the needle jumps there is a dead spot in the TPS and it will need to be replaced.

The next step is to set the TPS to the proper voltage with the key in the on position. Using your digital meter, connect to the same wires as you did in the above. The TPS voltage should be as close to .90V with the TB in the closed position. At full open (WOT) should be around 4.5V to 4.75 V. If the TPS is not within the above settings, loosen the 2 phillips head screws and rotate the TPS until you get to .90V at closed throttle. Tighten the screws, and recheck your settings again.

How do I set my Base Idle?

To set your base idle you will need to have the car running, at operating temperature, all accessories off.

The next step is to disconnect the IAC (Idle Air Controller). The engine speed should slow to around 750 or it may stall. The proper setting is listed on the emissions decal on the cover of the coil.

With the IAC still disconnected set the idle speed using the adjustment screw on the front of the TB. Operate the throttle a few times to make sure that it is set properly.

Turn off the engine and reconnect the IAC and start the car. After a few minutes the idle should set itself around 950 to 1025 RPM. After doing this procedure, it may be necessary to reset the TPS.
----------------------------------------------
If you suspect the VAF meter, here is a way to check it.
Attached Thumbnails
1987-thunderbird-turbo-coupe-misses-soon-boost-hits-vain-air-meter-vaf-ii.jpg  
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Old 08-28-2009   #6 (permalink)
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do a major tune up bruh, start with the basics first. expecially if the car has been sitting for a really long time. thats the first thing i do when ever i purchase a used car.
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Old 08-28-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Smile thanks so much guys you dont know what this means to me

Ok so a little background I guess might help.
I went and looked at the car, It is absolutley MINT as far as body and interior go. Which makes me belive it was well taken care of.
So the guy selling it lives in the richest part of calgary and has like a million dollar property, so im thinking this is good.
He tells me that he just got married and she is making him clear out all his "CRAP" the car had sat for atleast 8 years with the odd rip up and down the road "HE SAYS" i dunno
He was originally asking 3500, but someone broke the rear quarter window only to find it had an alarm.
So he lowered the price to 1500, So I got excited and went to look at it. He let me take it for a uninsured rip around his neibourhood and it ran great, I only hit 1st and 2nd but the turbo hit and it ran great.
So I bought the car, but lived to far to drive it home uninsured. So I got it towed home and put some nice chrome 17's with performance rubber.
I went and paid 6 months insurance and registration planning on a road trip.
So i get home and put on my plate and head to the auto wreckers to get a new window. Stopped to fill it with premium. Well the wheel bearings must have dryed up cause 5 blocks after the gas station I could hear grinding noise from the front end. So i made er back home but the car was no longer running right and was starting to heat up(this is where my engine problems are begining)

I put new calipers, pads, inner\outter bearings rotors everything that problem is gone.


So last night I was up until like 5 am working on the t-bird.
I found a coil laying around in my garage, must have been off my convertable, So anyways I installed it to see if it made any differance which it did it the bad way, my car woulldn't start.
So ill go get a new one today,
I also pulled the fuel filter and checked it, I can easily blow through it so im thinking it's fine???. I dont have a fuel preassure gauge and cant really afford one.
Ill go grab some plugs and wires today with high hopes.
As for the tps that testing the voltage is quite confusing to me, so I just installed a new one and the code is no longer there.

can someone please tell me how to do a koer test. I am getting code 11 on the koeo. So I turn off and plug the code reader in.
Go start the car, turn on code reader.
from here I push the test button, it revs the car up to abour 2500 or so (I havn't actually checked) for about 10 seconds then then the code reader shuts off and wont turn back on. Doesn't give me a code or anything. Very frustarating
I have been warming the car up to within normal temp before trying.

Sorry to ramble on like this my brain is just doing 100 miles an hour
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME ONCE AGAIN.
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Old 08-28-2009   #8 (permalink)
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How to run the codes.
Ford Fuel Injection » How To Run a Self-Test
Codes with what maybe can solve it.
Ford Bronco EEC IV Codes
Can't get codes.
Ford Fuel Injection » No Codes?
On the turbo 2.3 fuel pressure is very important if low can lose performance and worse case pistons. So need to check fuel pressure. Also the 2.3 love to go thru ignition parts so need to change regularly. Most 2.3 turbo recommend Ford ignition parts. The fancy expensive ones usually don't do good.
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Old 08-28-2009   #9 (permalink)
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Default runs worse now, lol

Ok, so i went and bought plugs, wires, cap and rotor but again they didn't have a coil. So I changed all of what I got, but now it is harder to start and wont stay running. It's been doing this since i was playing with the coil and tried to clean that VAM ,I am really starting to suspect the coil. even though I had that spare one laying around, the car wont even start with the old one, and barely runs with the current one until you get it somewhat warm it will run and idle like sh** .
Does this sound like a coil??
Or maybey the VAM.
thanks all
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Old 08-29-2009   #10 (permalink)
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OK YOU HAVE TO CHECK THE FUEL PREASURE. THE IN TANK HOSE THAT FEEDS THE PUMP TO THE SEALING RING HAS A NASTY HABIT OF SPLITTING. Check for spark the usual way and if good go no further on that. Sounds like low fuel preasure.
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Old 08-29-2009   #11 (permalink)
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Like Tom Renzo said. Must check or no performance or lose pistons. Found this a must have for a 2.3 turbo. First one found with quick search. Can buy from about any autoparts place and check with the borrow tool program some stores have and borrow one.
FUEL PRESSURE TESTER by Actron - Part 9030328 - Advance Auto Parts____
I check mine by running gauge from out from under hood and have buddy watch fuel pressure and boost and make sure ok. Should be 39psi idle with vacuum like off the fuel regulator. Reinstall vac line and note pressure and go for ride. Add 1psi of fuel pressure for every 1psi of boost. Now the fuel pressure with vac hose will be differant than the 39psi. Just note the pressure with vac line on and at idle and add the 1 to 1 to that. Maurice
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Old 08-29-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Default Got spark

Ok so I pulled a plug and grounded it to the block and im getting lots of spark.
So NOW Im on your guys side and I need to check my fuel. I cant find a lend a tool fuel preassure tester or one for less than 600 lol
So I guess just replacing the pump would be cheaper. like 156 bucks for the pump. what do you guys think? Im sure I can find a cheaper one monday.
Would a incorrect tps be messing up how much fuel im getting? Sounds like it would.
Ill go do some more code tests and let you know how it goes.
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Old 08-29-2009   #13 (permalink)
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Default got some codes

ok so as bad as my car is running now, I managed to get some codes outta it and i think they verified my initial suspect.
So I got a code 21 which it says Cooling temperature out of range or ECT out of range.
So this sounds like my heating problems.
Could I just straight wire the cooling fans to run on a switch,
(I live in alberta so it really doesn't get hot enough for A\C. I have a 01 ranger with a\c and have never used it, not once.) Or does it control more than that?

Also I got a code 24: Intake Air charge Exchange Temperature (ACT,IAT) Sensor or Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor outta range.

So this sounds like what I had expected originally, but would this cause the the engine to die out at 3000 rpm as explaned earlier

Also If it helps I can hear my fuel pump kick on and sounds like it holds preassure?? I dunno I work with preassure pumps and it sounds fine but just a guess.

I also got some other errors but they were all from me not hitting the brake and gas.

Thanks again for your time
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Old 08-29-2009   #14 (permalink)
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Checking wiring connections to ect. It does effect running. It tell computer whether car is warmed up or not. So I would check it. Also the link I gave for fuel pressure tester is lot less than 600. Maurice
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Old 08-30-2009   #15 (permalink)
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Default Tps verified

throttle position sensor at closed I got it to .91 and wide open at 4.59.
Good enough??
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