Its pretty stupěd to overbore that much if its a new block.
Maybe thats their way to do business, you screw your block, send it back to repair and you get the awesome news that you need a new block ! bye bye another good bunch of money for a very simple and easy way to avoid that.
Besides, whats the point in overboring to 0.030 when its NEW ? when I thought doing 0.020 might be to much ...
my point exactly.
__________________
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment" -Ralph Waldo Emerson
apparently they do..... but done disclose such....
and as I understand it, if you do need a rebuild later (the referenced owner did) there is not much room to overbore a second time. In this case he had to buy a new block (again)
he did have issues....
they are not stepping up to the "pump" as you put it. and have (from what I read from the posts) been less then responsive to his calls from the start.
my point as well. +1
__________________
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment" -Ralph Waldo Emerson
You guys are hilarious. It what point have I been arguing any clear cut facts. I have just presented some possible situations that would defend the engine builders stance. I know nothing of what transpired, and frankly I don’t care. I just want to bring to light the “other side” of the story. Or at least a possible other side.
You guys want to argue certain points. How am I going to argue certain points when all I am doing is presenting generalities. I can provide a counter point to every point you bring up, but that is not the point. I just want to get across that things like this always have two sides, or maybe three. Unfortunately forums tend to do only one thing though, and that is to side with the customer. It’s only natural, you don’t know the biz very well and everyone thinks a business is always at fault because of the perception of the “Deep pockets rule”
There will never be a clear cut solution to this argument. I think if you go back you will see I touched on that in my first post. As a high performance engine builder you will never be able to make every customer happy. Some people are never happy, some people feel the need to not take responsibility for stuff that goes wrong, some people intentionally attempt to extort or screw shops. These are all facts. If you choose a “side” I think it’s only fair for you to consider all of them.
__________________
Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
Its pretty stupěd to overbore that much if its a new block.
Are you an engine builder all of a sudden? How can you claim that it's "stupid". Do you know for a fact that the 4.6 blocks done have a tone of core shift during manufacturing? I'm not saing they do, I am just saying you are arguing this as if you have a big sheet of facts, which you don't. A lot of people call that talking out of your.....
Quote:
Maybe thats their way to do business, you screw your block, send it back to repair and you get the awesome news that you need a new block ! bye bye another good bunch of money for a very simple and easy way to avoid that.
Yeah, it's always the big bad billion dollar operation screwing the little guy. Take off the cape and tights superguy. I gaurantee you there are 100 times more customers intentionaly screwing businesses than businesses screwing customers.
Quote:
Besides, whats the point in overboring to 0.030 when its NEW ? when I thought doing 0.020 might be to much
The point again is WE DON'T KNOW!!! You are fighting a fight without any facts. Read my posts, I say things like maybe, could be and I have seen..........I have not presented an opinion at all. Just an alternate point of view. Are you against alternate points of view?
__________________
Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
The point again is WE DON'T KNOW!!! You are fighting a fight without any facts. Read my posts, I say things like maybe, could be and I have seen..........I have not presented an opinion at all. Just an alternate point of view. Are you against alternate points of view?
I said in my first post, they said it was to prevent rust. my thign is wtf? Rust on an aluminum block? I call BS.
__________________
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment" -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Are you an engine builder all of a sudden? How can you claim that it's "stupid". Do you know for a fact that the 4.6 blocks done have a tone of core shift during manufacturing? I'm not saing they do, I am just saying you are arguing this as if you have a big sheet of facts, which you don't. A lot of people call that talking out of your.....
Yeah, it's always the big bad billion dollar operation screwing the little guy. Take off the cape and tights superguy. I gaurantee you there are 100 times more customers intentionaly screwing businesses than businesses screwing customers.
The point again is WE DON'T KNOW!!! You are fighting a fight without any facts. Read my posts, I say things like maybe, could be and I have seen..........I have not presented an opinion at all. Just an alternate point of view. Are you against alternate points of view?
The FACT that I DO know is that I got my stroker kit from ST with STOCK bore with my car being 19K km´s and it works perfect.
that gives me more refreshing times and its proven that a stock bore with a barely used block is possible, more OBVIOUS with a new block, thats my point.
If MMR so called "stroker combo" needs to have a 0.030 ob, well, get another engine builder IMO.
__________________
When you ride like lightning... you strike like thunder !
07 GT Automatic - Red on Black -
I said in my first post, they said it was to prevent rust. my thign is wtf? Rust on an aluminum block? I call BS.
I have never seen an aluminum block with aluminum cylider walls. They either have iron liners or a nikasil coating. I highly doubt they are nikasil though, I have never seen that used in a car application. I would guess some sort of iron liner. I don't know for sure though, which is why I am just providing alternate points of view.
I highly doubt that the aluminum blocks have aluminum cylinders without any coating or some sort of liner. I suppose it's possible but that would be some very trick stuff indeed for a production car if they somehow made standard aluminum work. Does anyone know for sure?
And if they were iron and did have rust that is no big surprise. I would wager that Ford does not vacuume bag their blocks before shipping. Hell you could probably find them stacked up outside somewhere.
But if the liners were rusted but nothing else was wrong and MMR didn't overbore the blocks as SOP they should have gotten another block from their supplier and used a standard bore.
__________________
Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
The FACT that I DO know is that I got my stroker kit from ST with STOCK bore with my car being 19K km´s and it works perfect.
Fits and works are two completely different things then blueprinted and perfect. You are comparing apples to oranges. There is a reason that blueprinted motors make 5-10% more power and can spin a lot faster without damage and that is they are PERFECT. Lastly your block is not his block. They could have been machined differently; one may have experienced core shift, etc, etc, etc. Once again, apples and oranges. Comparing your motor to his is about as relevant as comparing a 350 Chevy to it. We are talking about thousandths of an inch here. No two block or for that matter stroker kits will be exactly the same.
Quote:
that gives me more refreshing times and its proven that a stock bore with a barely used block is possible, more OBVIOUS with a new block, thats my point.
Apples and oranges again.
Quote:
If MMR so called "stroker combo" needs to have a 0.030 ob, well, get another engine builder IMO.
Maybe yours needed a .030 overbore to be perfect and it didn't get it. Do you know for sure? One shops tolerances are not anothers. Maybe yours is a little bit on the big side of the range. Do you know for sure? What exactly did your pistons measure out to be? What exactly were your bores after honing (if it was done)? What is your piston to wall clearance? Do you know any of this as fact?
__________________
Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
I said in my first post, they said it was to prevent rust. my thign is wtf? Rust on an aluminum block? I call BS.
I just thought of this too. You are working off of a customer claim to get to a solution. Don’t you think that it may be possible for the customer to state the “facts” in their favor?
__________________
Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
I do appreciate the input you've provided and you made a lot of reasonable points in this thread, this is not one of them. In a professional race environment, yeah of course spares galore. For the average joe, who likes to go to the drag strip on the weekend a spare is not realistic. a freshen up after 2 years and 500 passes it is. and IMO its not unreasonable for one to believe when you pay for a new block you get a unadulterated new block. IMO if the builder needs to overbore to make it work better it should be disclosed to the buyer so they can make a more informed decision.
I do appreciate the input you've provided and you made a lot of reasonable points in this thread, this is not one of them. In a professional race environment, yeah of course spares galore. For the average joe, who likes to go to the drag strip on the weekend a spare is not realistic. a freshen up after 2 years and 500 passes it is. and IMO its not unreasonable for one to believe when you pay for a new block you get a unadulterated new block. IMO if the builder needs to overbore to make it work better it should be disclosed to the buyer so they can make a more informed decision.
I have no problem agreeing to disagree. But that is because I have respect for your point of view. And because I recognize another point of view may be valid I would never go as far as to pick sides (MMR vs. Mr. Customer). That situation is for them to settle if it comes down to “point of view”.
I ask everyone to think about that for a second before they go taking sides in any situation and especially one where the reputation of a shop and probably to one degree or another the livelihood of multiple people are on the line. The internet can be a dangerous thing for a reputation. Don’t be part of the problem, be part of the solution.
__________________
Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
