When i sent my pontiac block out for machine work and such it came back with an itimized listing of everything they did to the block. If the block is 30 over, then i order rings or pistons which are 30 over stock. That is info i must have to build the motor right. If i buy a longblock and its been bored 30 over, i would expect to see that on some paperwork. Being bored is factored into the displacement and hence, would affect the choice of parts going into the block and the carb setting.
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05 GT Premium, Blood Red Metallic, Shaker 500, IUP, My Color.....
70 GTO Conv. Red, Black interior, 400, Auto, Air, PS, PB
MMR doesnt use alum blocks. His bore was probably on a Cast Iron 04 Block like mine and yes Iron will rust.
I have no clue how well that works if it will prevent rust or what ever. But I do know I have not heard personally of any MMR blocks failing. I have never even seen them pop there own motors and they beat the crap out of them.
My block has been put to the test and will continue to be pushed. All thought its been a year all most sense my car as been driver lol well driven down the block but 10 months on the dot sense i have been able to take it out. It has been running great and will continue to run great I have no doubts.
I fully admit I know diddly-squat about building engines, but I've listened to a lot of "shade tree" mechanics, and was always under the impression that a bored engine with bigger piston/rings was a good thing, so long as you didn't get the walls too thin. All the hot rods were done that way. .30 over was actually them most common. But maybe that's because everyone rebuilding an engine, not building a new one from scratch...?
I think the whole point here is that it wasn't the block that failed it was the tune. Why wouldn't the owner go after the tuner if it was a bad tune?? I'm confused.
In any regards we recently had a motor built for our SSO car. We made 5 passes on it and blew it up in the final. After some inspection we are pretty certain it was a mistake by the builder. However, we did not contact them to cover the cost. The heads are burnt, the block shot on a $50,000.00 race motor. We didn't seek any type of reparation because most builders will not warranty a race motor due to it's use!
I understand completely where Sqidd is coming from. The fact of the matter is that there wouldn't be performance shops if they warranted everything. There are way to many customers out there that have no clue what they're doing. Yeah they got the money to buy the things but not the common sense not to over rev the motor, or spray it at 1500 rpms, or some crazy stuff. These are the same guys that then get on line and bash a shop because of poor service.
Not saying this is the case here. I'm not saying that's whats going on here. I am just saying this happens!
Like Sqidd, just pointing out the other side for consideration. I hope your friend gets his engine resolved OP. My MMR shortblock should be showing up today or tomorrow and I have no fear of installing it. However, I also have a spare. Why? Because I intend to beat on it and if you do that things can break...just the way it is.
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2007 Mustang GT Vista Blue 740RWHP/motor 904RWHP/spray 9.01 @ 152 mph 1/4 mile, 1.40 60' 2008 Clash of the Titans World Finals Champion 2009 Strictly Street Points leader/ET & MPH Record Holder
2009 GT500 Grabber Orange Vert 594 RWHP 11.5 @ 120mph it's my slow car!
the guy with trouble only sought compensation for a block. He felt ( i tend to agree) that since he could not now overbore the .030 that he needed to do the rebuild, and MMR did not disclose that his "new alum block" was to be bored out when his new S/B was built, that they should help out with the block. They troubled owner never once said MMR built a bad motor.
IDK if he went after the tuner at all.
What further made the situation worse was MMRs apparent lack of responsiveness to his inquires and requests.
And this motor was for a street car not a purpose built race car.
I completely understand your statement Stkjock. As I said I wasn't saying this was the case in this situation.
To use a more simplified example:
I've watched guys get new gears listen to the mechanic tell them how to break them in then watch them rip the tires pulling out of the parking lot.
I've seen that same guy come back and complain that the gears whine and he got a bad install.
For every 5 legitimate claims of poor craftsmanship their are probably 50 illegitimate claims. The reality here is apart from yourself (you seem to be up to speed on all of the particulars of this issue) no one knows what really transpired. We have only one side of the story.
All I'm saying is that I have seen to many false accusations both benign and deliberate to form an opinion from only one side.
It seems like Sqidd was catching it for more or less saying the same thing. I am simply agreeing with him. I can understand his point. We simply have to little info to justify saying MMR is a bad shop. My shop has bought many motors from them with no problems. Maybe they handled this particular case poorly. Maybe they discussed this with the owner and he didn't recall. He said he had a problem with the pistons also....did he just by the block and someone else install the rotating assembly?? Just to many questions unanswered for me to form an opinion.
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2007 Mustang GT Vista Blue 740RWHP/motor 904RWHP/spray 9.01 @ 152 mph 1/4 mile, 1.40 60' 2008 Clash of the Titans World Finals Champion 2009 Strictly Street Points leader/ET & MPH Record Holder
2009 GT500 Grabber Orange Vert 594 RWHP 11.5 @ 120mph it's my slow car!
My MMR shortblock should be showing up today or tomorrow and I have no fear of installing it
PLstang
Hope you get to enjoy your MMR block as much as we have ours. As you say nothing lasts forever. For example, I anticipate having to send my whole transmission back every year or so, for a refresh and/or upgrade.
Don't know anything about motor builds and overboring. Can only attest that our MMR is performing as per advertised
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06GT, being rebuilt for dragracing only 2008 race season, 10.0 at 136 mph, 1/4
Hope you get to enjoy your MMR block as much as we have ours. As you say nothing lasts forever. For example, I anticipate having to send my whole transmission back every year or so, for a refresh and/or upgrade.
Don't know anything about motor builds and overboring. Can only attest that our MMR is performing as per advertised
Hey, Steve look into a Turbo 400. We have been using mine now for some time with no trouble at all. We are even planning to swap some of the other race cars to them. They are just more durable, from what we can tell! Don't think I should have to have mine freshened anytime soon.
There was a nice article about trans choices in last months Race Pages. Check it out!
Short of a powerglide it may just be the best option for high HP S197 drag cars. It's pretty good on the street too!!
Sorry for the High Jack OP!!
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2007 Mustang GT Vista Blue 740RWHP/motor 904RWHP/spray 9.01 @ 152 mph 1/4 mile, 1.40 60' 2008 Clash of the Titans World Finals Champion 2009 Strictly Street Points leader/ET & MPH Record Holder
2009 GT500 Grabber Orange Vert 594 RWHP 11.5 @ 120mph it's my slow car!
I think the real deal here is that before people start going on some crusade to bash MMR, people need to listen to the guys who actually own their blocks and are racing with them. (tached_out, steve, etc.)
No matter what overbore they use the purpose of the motor is to perform as advertised. If they didn't leave room to do a refresh then so be it, the purpose of the motor is to pump it up with as much HP as possible without failing.
So far I've heard nothing but great things from MMRs motors and when I go to get my block built, I'll definitely be considering MMR. If it's overbored to .020 or .030 makes no difference to me as long as the motor does what it say it will. Now at that point if I blow it up with too much boost or a bad tune, that's my **** luck.
It would be like me agressively tuning the stock block and blowing it up, which is entirely possible, and then trying to say that Ford should have left me with more options after an engine failure and it's their fault I'm now out of a block. Ford makes the motor to operate within their tolerances and perameters, when I go outside those boundries there are risks. This is with built or stock blocks. If Ford chose to overbore their blocks from the factory(because they felt it gave more HP, rust, or whatever) then it would not be their fault if I could not repair the motor I blew up.
The workmanship has nothing to do with the failure, so basically all you are arguing is that you feel you should be allowed to rebuild the block after a failure and that they should be designed with this in mind. And that's a point of contention right there because that's not really guaranteed with the purchase of a built motor, nor in my opinon should it be guaranteed.
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:: 2005 Mineral Grey Mustang GT :: Goes by the name of Angelina.
Angelina has the following mods.
:: CHE Adj UCA :: CHE LCAs :: CDC Sequential Taillights :: Pro 5.0 Short shifter :: Painted and blacked out rear deck lid :: 8" Shorty Antenna :: C&L Racer CAI :: Motoblue Underdrive Pulleys :: Fog light delete :: STLwagon's Steeda CMCV delete plates :: BMR Adj Panhard Rod :: Stangsuspension.com Caster/Camber Plates :: Stangsuspension.com lowering springs :: Tokico HiPo shocks and struts ::
I was “shopping” around for a shortblock yesterday and while on the phone acting very stupid to see what kind of BS the shops would try and slip past me. I did not call MMR because that is what this is about. I did call every Mod motor builder I could find though. It was a total of 11. 9 places said they do some sort of overbore on new blocks as a matter of course just to get everything squared up. The other two places said they do it on a case by case basis, which obviously could be argued each way. 6 of the shops automatically go .020 over as a first step on every motor and if it will not square up they will go .030.
While I playing dumb customer I asked why can’t they put it together with no overbore so if something went wrong I had one more bore left in the block. The shops I asked said yes, they could do that but they would not guarantee any of their work if they did. Two of the shops even asked me back “What kind of failure are you talking about” and I said something to do with too much boost and not enough fuel, detonation, etc, etc, etc. I could almost hear them laughing on the other end of the phone because I know what a ridiculous question that is. The answer to the question is that if ANYTHING metal gets bouncing around in the combustion chamber, like after a shattered piston you may flat out break the block, let alone scratch it more than .030. Not one shop said they had seen a failure that could have re-used the block, even if it had started zero over. That I don’t have a hard time believing, do you know how small a .030 scratch is? It wouldn’t take much to make one that would ruin a cylinder.
I suspected this but did not know for sure when this thread was a hot topic and that is with an aluminum block you have steel or cast iron (I can’t remember which) cylinder liners. You can’t have aluminum as the cylinder wall of a motor for a street driven vehicle. But there is one big advantage to those liners…..and that is you can replace them.
So this person who had their motor bored .030 over which has become a point of contention between him and MMR and gotten a little bit out of control on the net had a built in and rather inexpensive solution. Replace the liner. And while I was writing this I thought of one more thing. It seems that everyone is in agreement that a tuning issue caused the meltdown. Well obviously it’s the tuners fault, if he warranties work great. Have him pay for the shortblock and why would the car owner care if it’s bored over at all? If the tuner is paying the bill does the guy care how much it is? Could the tuner say I won’t warranty the block because it was .030 over? No, that’s ridiculous.
I don’t think we ever got the whole story, I suspect that the other forum that this thread spawned from doesn’t contain the whole story and I would be cash money that friends of the guy who owns the car don’t actually know the whole story. To me this sounds like a whole lot of crap is flying around for such a little thing. It sounds big, but it’s not. Motor gets built to within an inch of its life. Guy tunes it to within two inches of its life. Car owner drives car like he stole it. Something goes wrong. Big surprise. Now the situation immediately morphs into what could possibly be the worst human trait. The “It’s not my fault” situation. No one will take responsibility for anything anymore. It’s amazing and sad. I have seen people argue over whose fault it was for longer than it would have taken to solve the problem.
Now a good shop and a nice guy (I don’t know him but I will give him the benefit of the doubt) both think they have gotten screwed and the shop probably lost future customers over this situation. In reality this is a “Nobody’s fault” situation. It’s just a bunch of little events that added up into one (what seems to some) as a big event. Nothing more, nothing less.
It is possible to have things suck but not be anyone’s fault.
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Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
i agree with you squidd sometimes you just have to chalk it up as **** luck !!!!!!!!!
as said many times before im nowhere near any kind of mechanic if id ever really tear this block apart id have a truckload of extra parts left over on reinstall lol but i do know this i watch steve beat on his car like a red headed stepchild lol and its still a pumpin so i know they are more than capable of building an engine to last n with that being said i do know some1 running livanovis or however the hell you spell their name and his runns fine too now his clutches ahhhhhhhhhh not so much
pretty much moral of this story is " YOU GOTTA PAY TO PLAY "
when ever you are attempting to build a fast or race car you have to be able to take the risk of any thing happening.
It is a thing of build at your own risk type of thing. there can be 100's of things that could of went wrong but people all ways thing there job is perfect so they blame the block.
The injectors could of failed or the fuel system might of been bad, and what it all comes down to is the tune. Every block I have seen blow it was fault of the tune.
My LS1 buddy is on his 4th motor right now and has not had his car for over a year now. if you want a dependable car and rely on it save your time and dont even think about an S/C or a stroker block.
Like many of us here with heavily modded cars our cars are nothing but toys for us. Expensive toys but toys. My block has taken beatings between tuning, the track and 110 degree weather and runs like a CHAMP. If my block blew I would go back and buy another from MMR in a heart beat.
I was flipping through an old issue of MM&FF the other day and came across a MMR ad and I don’t know why but I read it, and guess what it said?
“Block deck plate bored and honed”
This was included in the bullets under every single engine option. MMR can’t be expected to do anything more than include what they do in their advertising for cripes sakes. I haven’t checked their site but I’ll bet it says it there too.
It is by no means a law because it is their policy but most credit card companies will not do a chargeback for you if the reason you want something charged back is posted on the businesses site or in their advertising. As far as the CC company is concerned there was plenty of information available for the customer to base their buying decision on. And CC companies always lean toward the customers best interest.
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Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
well here in the near future i will be getting mine bored against my will lol , but i have no intent on sending this block back to get redone a second time because if it goes after the 1st build then i will be worried about finding my pistons downtrack instead of .30 overbore lmao
