Well as most of you know, I've been running the whipple supercharger on my car for 2 years now. best decision I ever made.
now comes yet another mod bug that I'm debating. CAMS! I've taken quite a few visits to Tillman Speed, some of his previous customers have showed up to his shop for friendly visits and the sound of the cams literally makes me want to cream myself. the cars sound sick. some have had blowers and some have been N/A.
my question to anyone, given the fact that I'm running a 10psi whipple supercharger @ 480RWHP, is it worth it to buy cams, like the Comp Cam grind for s/c applications I keep hearing about? will the s/c combination along with cams be too much for stock internals? whats the added benefits of adding the cams and the negative effects on a supercharged application? my main overall goal, is to get a bit more power to put me over the 500 mark conservatively and get that nice sound that cams make.
Its hard to say that going near the 500 HP range is safe for the stock internals. Personally I'd be afraid to go past 450 rwhp, which is roughly 525 flywheel hp. These stock bottom ends just weren't built to handle more than 8 psi safely. I think when you hit the 10 psi level its not if the internals are going to go, its just a matter of when.
Remember the longevity of your stock engine is all in the tune.
A good tune will make your engine last...even beyond 500hp.
A bad tune will destroy your engine even with 300hp.
I run a Procharger with 10psi with ~500 RWHP and put over 600 pass on it at the drag strip doing 11.5s for 3 years and daily driving it on 93 octane gas and the block looks fine.
How do I know?
I now have it sitting in the garage because I believed all the horror stories from the net and finally had a short block built and installed.
Both my tuner and my engine builder told me I did not need a built short block unless I was shifting at 7000 rpm or had a bad tune.
So 10 grand later, and now I run 11.5s and have the piece of mind that my rods will not fail.
I guess that if my build block fails, I can always install the stoick block again!
You can see me run this weekend.
I will be at Fords at Englishtown, NJ.
I will be running on Friday, Saturday and in the 11.5 index class on Sunday.
Stop by and say, "Hi"
Tim Watts
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My car is a HYBRID It Burns both Gas and Rubber! I am no "EXPERT", but I am willing to learn.
2005 Mustang Gt, Auto, Procharged ~500 RWHP 11.307@122.89 Mph 23 Nov 2008@Cecil County Dragway,MD 1972 Mustang Convertible 5 Speed, 351C-2V ~350 HP 1 of 82 built with a manual transmission and 351C-2V.
Last edited by blue72mustang; 10-30-2008 at 08:56 AM.
Reason: a
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You can see me run this weekend.
I will be at Fords at Englishtown, NJ.
I will be running on Friday, Saturday and in the 11.5 index class on Sunday.
Stop by and say, "Hi"
Tim Watts
I'm probably going to go to Englishtown on Sat. (strictly as a spectator). I'll keep an eye out for you.
Go F/I cam and let's make sure you still pull 10PSI even if we gotta throw another pulley on there, and get you around 520RWHP SAE! You'll be good on our tune!
Chris Rose
Tillman Speed Inc.
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Tillman Speed Inc.
Custom Tuning | In-House Dynojet 224xLC
3344 Market Street • Suite C • Aston, PA 19014 Sales: (610)497-5776 or 497-3736 Out-of-State Sales: (610)497-3711 Service / Dyno: (610)497-9683 PREMIER DEALER:Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger Systems - Kooks Custom Headers - Magnaflow Exhaust Systems - MORE!
If you go with cams you will be flirting with making a window in the shortblock. Horsepower is horsepower, doesn't matter how you make it. If it's a supercharger grind it will have less overlap than a NA cam so the car will still retain a lot of it's driveability and you probably won't loose any HP down low. But because the cams do have less overlap they won't sound quite as good as a NA cam will. You should probably listen to a car with the cams you want to make sure it has the sound you like.
Another way of looking at it is the price of cams with labor is about half of what a shortblock would cost you. It may be a better idea to get the rest of the money together and take care of the shortblock. Then you can simply turn up the boost for more power (if the Whipple will put more out, I don't know).
When I go through my motor this winter and forge it I am not going with cams but when it's back together I'm going to set it up to make 625rwhp. I figured if I can make that kind of power without the additional cost of cams great. I have other places to spend $2000 in the car, like transmission type stuff.
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Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
I think I would go with a built block and crank that Whipple up first!
The cams are ok....but being able to pulley your blower for max boost..........
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2007 Mustang GT Vista Blue 740RWHP/motor 904RWHP/spray 9.01 @ 152 mph 1/4 mile, 1.40 60' 2008 Clash of the Titans World Finals Champion 2009 Strictly Street Points leader/ET & MPH Record Holder
2009 GT500 Grabber Orange Vert 594 RWHP 11.5 @ 120mph it's my slow car!
stock cams are fine if my car expects to make 700 on a stock cams then I think stock is good to go.
2000$ for 30-40hp is expensive when you can get 200rwhp for 3500$ I would save your cash and get a built block. Untill you are maxing out your boost and power your blower can make and need the cams to help out then sure but if not the stock ones are allot better then people give them credit for.
Save that 2000 for when you have wheel hop and need to change your rear suspension if you havent done so yet.
Stock cams are more then good. I swapped mine because I was doing the heads anyways and well they were free! LOL
I also have a 4-valve motor so their impact is a little different!
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2007 Mustang GT Vista Blue 740RWHP/motor 904RWHP/spray 9.01 @ 152 mph 1/4 mile, 1.40 60' 2008 Clash of the Titans World Finals Champion 2009 Strictly Street Points leader/ET & MPH Record Holder
2009 GT500 Grabber Orange Vert 594 RWHP 11.5 @ 120mph it's my slow car!
I have to disagree here. Some of what blue72 said is true and some not. A bad tune can ruin your engine most certainly, but a good tune is not the key to avoiding the destruction of your internal parts. If a car is putting out a lot of boost and the internals of the motor cannot handle it there is nothing that a good tune can do. These parts are not meant to handle alot of horsepower. Im sure you can find cases of people snapping a connecting rod. What the tune will prevent is having things within the cylinder become too lean which... well everyone knows what happens there.
I use nitrous. I have my tune to keep my A/F within a safe range but I know i cant throw another 200 horsepower on there, adjust my tune and think that the internals will hold up to that.
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2005 Mustang GT , 5-speed , Satin Silver
Mods: C&L, custom SCT tune, Stage 3 Comp Cams, Flowmasters, OR h-pipe, Steeda UDP, 4.10 FRPP gears, Zex Wet Nitrous Racer Kit, SPEC 3+ w/ alum Flywheel, Detroit True-Trac, full BMR suspension, PH alum driveshaft, M&H, SS window louvers, GTS center panel blackout
12.88 @ 106
12.03 @ 115 (75 hp shot)
Congratulations Tim! Great races. I saw you race on Saturday at Englishtown.
Thanks,
I drove 4 hours to get there on Friday, swapped tires and ran Friday night, ran in Real Street on Sat and also ran in the Mustang Bracket on Sat, which I won.
I also set a persoal best on Sunday in the 11.5 index class.
An 11.507 which made me the #1 qualifier.
I finally got knocked out in the 1/4 finals.
So I swapped tires and drove 4 hours home.
My car was running great and all my runs were faster than 11.7.
It was a great weekend and there were lots of nice cars there.
__________________
My car is a HYBRID It Burns both Gas and Rubber! I am no "EXPERT", but I am willing to learn.
2005 Mustang Gt, Auto, Procharged ~500 RWHP 11.307@122.89 Mph 23 Nov 2008@Cecil County Dragway,MD 1972 Mustang Convertible 5 Speed, 351C-2V ~350 HP 1 of 82 built with a manual transmission and 351C-2V.
I had been running 16.5 psi for about a year with JDMs tune. Car went many 10 sec passes. It would run a 10.9 in 100 degree weather and 10.6 in 40 degree weather. But eventually the rod came through the side of the block. So its all in the tune. IMO JDM is probably one of the best tunners out there. They have many cars in the 10s running stock motor. I was warned about from Jim about the pulley combo I swithed to.
I think cams would be over doing it right now. If you plan to build the motor, then I would suggest doing cams then. I am actually ordering a set today for my build.
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07 GT/CS with Saleen Blower tuned by JDM engineering. 3.0 upper with 10% lower. Lentech 4R70W with transbrake.
10.64 at 127 mph with a 1.49 60'.
Supercharger & Cams, is it worth it?? 
I have evrything but a shortblock to support 700rwhp. I don't need the temptation of 14-16psi on my stock bottom end.
