i know it is not what you are looking for but for a little help atleast with mine here in alabama. i am using rp purple ice and i have heard wet wetter from redline is even better.but my motor does runs cooler and performance better in the heat since i have added.
Glad that it helped your car's performance in hotter weather. That's something I had not considered. Thanks.
Since I am dealing with what I think is an intake air temp problem right now, this thread piqued my attention.
If you are running a stock tune and 85(or 87) octane fuel, you could do this and be safe if you put 91 (or 93) octane fuel in. Your timing will advance, but if the ECU detects a knock or ping, it will retard the timing and you will have even less power.
The only 2 tuning variables that will give you more power are timing and AF ratio, and both are dependent on the octane rating of the fuel because increasing either can lead to detonation and detonation=damage. The hotter your intake air, the easier your fuel burns when mixed into it, and if your timing is already advanced 25 degrees (optimal for 4.6 3v), you might start detonating. If the computer doesn't pull timing then your fuel better have a higher octane rating.
If you have a 91 or 93 tune already and you do this, I can pretty much promise you will be detonating on a hot day, and likely causing the timing to be pulled back, if you don't bend a rod first.
Thanks for the feedback.
Good point on using gas with an octane rating that's higher than what the tune is designed to burn. I believe that the referenced article also suggested doing this.
I also agree that the knock sensors will continue to pull timing if they detect any pinging caused by a modified IAT input signal.
However, I respectfully disagree with your comment that increasing the A/F ratio causes detonation. Actually, it helps to prevent detonation, since additional fuel reduces the combustion chamber temperatures. Conversely, leaning out the mixture can lead to detonation as it increases the combustion chamber temperatures. And one interesting fact that the article noted was the test car's A/F ratio actually enriched when the PCM went into the open loop mode under high loads at higher rpms, which can reduce the engine's tendency to ping at higher IAT's with a modified IAT input signal.
KlrStng,
Delete the following from my latest post. I misread your comment.
"However, I respectfully disagree with your comment that increasing the A/F ratio causes detonation. Actually, it helps to prevent detonation, since additional fuel reduces the combustion chamber temperatures. Conversely, leaning out the mixture can lead to detonation as it increases the combustion chamber temperatures."
We all know that Ford was too conservative with the stock tune's torque management algorithm, which caused extremely poor throttle response and crappy driveability, and how we are able to greatly reduce this undesireable effect with more aggressive 3rd party tunes.
Thinking along those same lines, the same may be said about Ford's software approach to the PCM pulling timing when the temps get hot. That is, it's also written too conservatively, and reducing it may also render benefits(during specific conditions).
Your thoughts?
You don't believe your "3rd party" tuned tweaked the amount of timing that gets pulled?
This may sound contradictory here but in my opinion (this is where we go back to GIGO) it is better to tell the ecm to allow more timing based upon a certain, but real, inlet air temp than it is to trick it and let it "think" the air charge is cooler than it really is. This way your sure your only affecting the timing and not every function in the ECM that uses IAT.
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93 Cobra Supercharged 342 Vortech T-trim...all sorts of stuff, by Thrill Ride Unlimited Mt. Vernon Oh.
The knock sensors values can be changed in the tune. There are a few others that affect timing and AF
Off topic side note: KB has to adjust these a little so the sound of the supercharger doesn't trigger them and make the ecu pull timing.. heh.. I find that funny for some reason.
On Topic: There is NO reason in the world to put a resistor on your IAT sensor if you already have a custom tune. If you really want to advance timing more, the SCT X3 allows you to add more, but I wouldn't. Most tunes you buy are already pushing it as it is, why risk detonation under any circumstances? If the tuner figured you could safely afford more timing, he would put it in.
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2006 GT Premium Vert, 5 spd, Tungsten Grey Show: Painted gloss black stripes, Street Scene Gen 1 body kit, side and hood scoops, CDC light bar, sequential tails, purple underglow, 8" shorty antenna, redline hood struts, Steeda Ultralights, 20" Chrome Killers, S.O.S. pillar & 3 gauges. Go: J&M LCA's & Adj. UCA, J&M Adj. Panhard, CHE LCA reloc brackets & torque limiters, 3.73 gears, Kenne Bell Stage 1 2.6l supercharger.
...440rwhp/401rwtq
In 50 degree weather my car is impressive for the few mods I have but in 90 degree weather I notice that somethings missing.
I know that Doug has done as much as he can to make my tunes work in the Hot weather where I live.
You don't believe your "3rd party" tuned tweaked the amount of timing that gets pulled?
This may sound contradictory here but in my opinion (this is where we go back to GIGO) it is better to tell the ecm to allow more timing based upon a certain, but real, inlet air temp than it is to trick it and let it "think" the air charge is cooler than it really is. This way your sure your only affecting the timing and not every function in the ECM that uses IAT.
Thanks for your input.
I definitely know that my tune's timing is peaked to the max for the octane rating it's designed for based on my car's cool/cold weather performance. But things still flatten out when the ambient temps reach the 80's and hotter.
Your opinion may be right on the $. However, my reason for posting was to try to gather data from the actual experience of others with this mod.
I did some additional online research on this topic, and found that this mod produces very little, if any, performance improvement on various vehicles, including Mustangs. Plus, a POT requires a lot of tedious tweaking for various ambient conditions. So consider this topic dead AFAIC.
Thanks for everyone's feedback.
ALRIGHT!! Way to go! Add unneccessary timing based upon inlet temperature or engine coolant temp! Custom tunes are for suckers! Honda Pilot's are rockets!
[ end sarcasm ]
^That wasn't speaking to the original poster, just in general... Why wouldn't you dial in the PROPER amount of timing based upon ACTUAL inlet or engine coolant temperatures using fancy tables that go off RPM, calculated engine load, and throttle position? You have these tables... we use them in the aftermarket. I wouldn't let that resistor within 100 yards of my vehicle if I were you fellas.
Our spark retard for ACT tables and ECT tables are set up so that you will not pull timing until absolutely neccessary. Even on an 80 degree day in rush hour traffic your car can maintain ambient temperatures that are BELOW what we feel to be the safe limit where timing needs to start being reduced. Call me up for a custom tune and see if she does the same thing!
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Tillman Speed Inc.
Custom Tuning | In-House Dynojet 224xLC
3344 Market Street • Suite C • Aston, PA 19014 Sales: (610)497-5776 or 497-3736 Out-of-State Sales: (610)497-3711 Service / Dyno: (610)497-9683 PREMIER DEALER:Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger Systems - Kooks Custom Headers - Magnaflow Exhaust Systems - MORE!
Our spark retard for ACT tables and ECT tables are set up so that you will not pull timing until absolutely neccessary. Even on an 80 degree day in rush hour traffic your car can maintain ambient temperatures that are BELOW what we feel to be the safe limit where timing needs to start being reduced.
Data logging on my 05 S197 GT with an aftermarket CAI indicated that with an 82 F ambient temperature and a fully warmed up engine, the IAT rapidly increased to 125-130 F when I was stopped at a red light for as little as 30-60 seconds. Needless to say, the performance was less than stellar when pulling away from the light. So if you're saying that your IAT table does not cause the PCM to pull timing when stopped in traffic with an 80 F ambient, then are you also saying that it doesn't pull any timing when the IAT is 125-130 F?
Data logging on my 05 S197 GT with an aftermarket CAI indicated that with an 82 F ambient temperature and a fully warmed up engine, the IAT rapidly increased to 125-130 F when I was stopped at a red light for as little as 30-60 seconds. Needless to say, the performance was less than stellar when pulling away from the light. So if you're saying that your IAT table does not cause the PCM to pull timing when stopped in traffic with an 80 F ambient, then are you also saying that it doesn't pull any timing when the IAT is 125-130 F?
Idle timing is completely separated from part throttle and WOT timing. Once you enter idle mode, you also go off of desired idle spark in neutral (or drive) depending on manual/automatic.
Now when you get moving, your timing tables are completely controllable for IAT's, and should be dialed in appropriately by your tuner. If you told be the highest that your MOVING IAT's get even in the worst of the times was 100, I'd tell you... you're in good shape because in our tune the spark retard for air charge temp table is set up to still pull 0 degrees timing at 100 degrees temp.
However, I will say this might not be the only reason your car feels sluggish. Especially since you told me you've had the same tune for 4 years. I know a TON of parameters that were not accessible at that time to most dealers that are like a MUST to change.
Chris
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Tillman Speed Inc.
Custom Tuning | In-House Dynojet 224xLC
3344 Market Street • Suite C • Aston, PA 19014 Sales: (610)497-5776 or 497-3736 Out-of-State Sales: (610)497-3711 Service / Dyno: (610)497-9683 PREMIER DEALER:Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger Systems - Kooks Custom Headers - Magnaflow Exhaust Systems - MORE!
Thanks for the response, Chris.
Since my car has a history of going WOT after having been stopped at a light for longer than a minute in ambients higher than 82 F with the engine fully warmed up, then it's apparent that your tune will also pull timing under those conditions.
Also, I've had the same CAI for 4 years, but the current tune was installed 2 years ago.
Idle timing is completely separated from part throttle and WOT timing. Once you enter idle mode, you also go off of desired idle spark in neutral (or drive) depending on manual/automatic.
