Your probably not going to like this............but, find a reputable SCT tuner that has a dyno and have them do a custom tune on it. Should take about an hour or two to get your car running like it should. Your looking at approx $185 for the custom tune. Depends on the shop.
Some of your better tuners will not email F/I tunes for the very reasons your stating above.
Good Luck
Agree that it's getting to the point that getting it dyno tuned may be the only recourse.
Agree that it's getting to the point that getting it dyno tuned may be the only recourse.
It would have to sit on the dyno for a few days because the problem shows itself for the first 3-5 mintues after sitting a minimum of 4 hours. Tough to tune out a problem when by the time you have verified it is still there and make adjustments, you have to wait a few hours to test your changes again.
Whats the going hourly rate on a dyno?
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2006 GT Premium Vert, 5 spd, Tungsten Grey Show: Painted gloss black stripes, Street Scene Gen 1 body kit, side and hood scoops, CDC light bar, sequential tails, purple underglow, 8" shorty antenna, redline hood struts, Steeda Ultralights, 20" Chrome Killers, S.O.S. pillar & 3 gauges. Go: J&M LCA's & Adj. UCA, J&M Adj. Panhard, CHE LCA reloc brackets & torque limiters, 3.73 gears, Kenne Bell Stage 1 2.6l supercharger.
...440rwhp/401rwtq
When Custom Tune files are created all aspects are gonna be adjusted including part throttle and idle characteristics, the fact that your only having problems during certain driving conditions CAN be the result of an improper tune! Your MAF counts and voltage might be ff'ed up, fuel rail pressure, long & short term fuel trim, etc.. the list goes on! I just wanted to give you an option! Good Luck!
have you tried new Oxygen sensors? if they are reading bogus then they are going to tell the puter the wrong info, hense the cold start-up woes. just a guess.
It would have to sit on the dyno for a few days because the problem shows itself for the first 3-5 mintues after sitting a minimum of 4 hours. Tough to tune out a problem when by the time you have verified it is still there and make adjustments, you have to wait a few hours to test your changes again.
Whats the going hourly rate on a dyno?
Not necessarily. It could end up being something really simple. Dyno time varies but is around $150/hr.
have you tried new Oxygen sensors? if they are reading bogus then they are going to tell the puter the wrong info, hense the cold start-up woes. just a guess.
I thought about that but the problem occurs when the engine is cold, and it doesn't matter if it is in closed or open loop.. if it is in open loop then the O2 sensors are not even looked at.
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2006 GT Premium Vert, 5 spd, Tungsten Grey Show: Painted gloss black stripes, Street Scene Gen 1 body kit, side and hood scoops, CDC light bar, sequential tails, purple underglow, 8" shorty antenna, redline hood struts, Steeda Ultralights, 20" Chrome Killers, S.O.S. pillar & 3 gauges. Go: J&M LCA's & Adj. UCA, J&M Adj. Panhard, CHE LCA reloc brackets & torque limiters, 3.73 gears, Kenne Bell Stage 1 2.6l supercharger.
...440rwhp/401rwtq
Not necessarily. It could end up being something really simple. Dyno time varies but is around $150/hr.
What sucks is I went home at lunch, plugged in the sctx3 and the laptop and drove.. I logged 5 times in a row of pressing the gas and having it bog and even pop pretty loud, and then continued to log after the engine warmed up, and the data looks pretty much the same in both cases. The only difference in each case is the temp of the engine and the various components.
Like I mentioned in one of my diatribes is the fact that somewhere, there is a mechanic that could jump in and drive the car once and say "Oh hell, that's just -----------------, and it's really easy to fix"
While I would pay untold amounts of money to hear that, I wouldn't pay untold amounts of money to find out the mechanic can't figure it out and be out of money and still have the problem.. I have a real problem paying people to "try" to do a job.. I wouldn't pay a roofer to attempt and fail to make my house safe from the elements, and I don't want to pay a mechanic to "try" to fix my car. I don't like going to a doctor with a problem that can't be diagnosed either, but at least there is insurance to help pay for that.. I think you can understand where I am coming from.
If I thought it was as simple as going to the one guy in town who sells SCT product and knows how to tune an S197, I would do it.. But I know how that session would end.. "Well, we got it up to 460rwhp and everything looks good, see how it runs in the morning, and if it is still giving you problems, maybe you can leave it with me for a few days and I can try to datalog the problem. That will be $300, thanks"...
Maybe I sound like a pessimist but after all the troubleshooting and spending money, I am tired of throwing money at the problem with no resolution.
Funny thing is, if a tuner could figure out how to tune around the problem, I would know what the problem is and could fix it.. There HAS to be something different with my car if the tune and product work on other cars that are identical..
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2006 GT Premium Vert, 5 spd, Tungsten Grey Show: Painted gloss black stripes, Street Scene Gen 1 body kit, side and hood scoops, CDC light bar, sequential tails, purple underglow, 8" shorty antenna, redline hood struts, Steeda Ultralights, 20" Chrome Killers, S.O.S. pillar & 3 gauges. Go: J&M LCA's & Adj. UCA, J&M Adj. Panhard, CHE LCA reloc brackets & torque limiters, 3.73 gears, Kenne Bell Stage 1 2.6l supercharger.
...440rwhp/401rwtq
I thought about that but the problem occurs when the engine is cold, and it doesn't matter if it is in closed or open loop.. if it is in open loop then the O2 sensors are not even looked at.
Could be the IAC (idle air control) or the timing or even the dashpot.
What is you PCM box code. (ex. BKT3) will also need a full list, and dont leave any thing out, of the mods you have made to the engine and exhaust.
I am assuming that the throttle body has been cleaned (on the inside) and that the TPS (throttle position sensor) is okay.
I wish I could get my hands on your tune in MFT format.............I dont see KB offering to do that though.
Even if we do figure out what the issue is there is nothing that anyone can do to correct the tune except for the original tuner.
By the way, just about any of this sites supporting tuners could help you.
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2005 Mustang GT Automatic Screaming Yellow
WMS 80mm HV Intake W/ Ram Hood
SCTuning by John and Matt - Mustang Muscle Performance
93 Octane Race and transmission tune
Saleen Stainless Steel UDP's, BMR Front Sway Delete,
PH Aluminum DS, Steeda LCA's, Steeda UCA
FRPP 3.73 Gears, IMCO Extreme Axle Back Exhaust
255/50/17 Tires BFG GForce T/A KWDS
The idle issue is far better than before after the TB swap.. still drops a little when cold, but so far I haven't seen the near stalling like I did before..
Is LTFT supposed to go from whatever it is to get stoich to zero when you touch the throttle? It seems that is the "symptom" I am seeing but I don't know if it is a result or cause of the problem.. At idle LTFT will be pegged at -25%.. at WOT it's zero, and that's fine, AF is a tad rich but works at WOT. However, the problem occurs when I give it gas.. and I notice LTFT is going to zero the moment I push on the pedal.. if it is pulling 25% of the fuel that is set in the maf table, then the O2s are telling the PCM there is too much fuel for the air, pull fuel to try to get to stoich. However, if I give it say 5% pedal and throttle goes up even a little, LTFT goes to zero and if the engine is cold it will bog and sputter. Shouldn't LTFT gradually go from pulling fuel to not pulling fuel instead of just letting it flow even if not much throttle is called for? Or is that what STFTs are for - an interim way to pull fuel as throttle increases toward WOT? I'm just trying to understand the dynamics of it..
Still doesn't change the fact that adjusting the MAF table to see less air than there was resulted in far less fuel being pulled, much closer AF ratio at idle and cruising to stoich, but adding throttle made it bog, even with the engine warm.. so LTFTs went from -4% to zero on throttle and it bogged.. so something else is coming into play that I am missing.
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2006 GT Premium Vert, 5 spd, Tungsten Grey Show: Painted gloss black stripes, Street Scene Gen 1 body kit, side and hood scoops, CDC light bar, sequential tails, purple underglow, 8" shorty antenna, redline hood struts, Steeda Ultralights, 20" Chrome Killers, S.O.S. pillar & 3 gauges. Go: J&M LCA's & Adj. UCA, J&M Adj. Panhard, CHE LCA reloc brackets & torque limiters, 3.73 gears, Kenne Bell Stage 1 2.6l supercharger.
...440rwhp/401rwtq
I thought about that but there isn't an IAC valve on these cars. It could be a simple idle dashpot adjustment.
Keep in mind, the idle issue was totally intermittent.. most of the time it idled perfectly.. just sometimes the engine was showing a higher load when off throttle and coasting, and idle would bounce around from 300 to 1000 and back again, sometimes stalling after driving very hard..
Hard to believe a static adjustment would correct an intermittent problem while not affecting the normal operation the other 95% of the time..
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2006 GT Premium Vert, 5 spd, Tungsten Grey Show: Painted gloss black stripes, Street Scene Gen 1 body kit, side and hood scoops, CDC light bar, sequential tails, purple underglow, 8" shorty antenna, redline hood struts, Steeda Ultralights, 20" Chrome Killers, S.O.S. pillar & 3 gauges. Go: J&M LCA's & Adj. UCA, J&M Adj. Panhard, CHE LCA reloc brackets & torque limiters, 3.73 gears, Kenne Bell Stage 1 2.6l supercharger.
...440rwhp/401rwtq
Like I mentioned in one of my diatribes is the fact that somewhere, there is a mechanic that could jump in and drive the car once and say "Oh hell, that's just -----------------, and it's really easy to fix"
While I would pay untold amounts of money to hear that, I wouldn't pay untold amounts of money to find out the mechanic can't figure it out and be out of money and still have the problem.. I have a real problem paying people to "try" to do a job.. I wouldn't pay a roofer to attempt and fail to make my house safe from the elements, and I don't want to pay a mechanic to "try" to fix my car. I don't like going to a doctor with a problem that can't be diagnosed either, but at least there is insurance to help pay for that.. I think you can understand where I am coming from.
At this point, I think it depends on whether or not you really do want to spend the money to get the car to run perfectly. I don't think anyone is going to be able to diagnose your problem with a "keyboard dyno". I'm surprised that Kenne Bell hasn't been more help, but this is one of those situations where a tuner is going to have to go through everything you've done, step-by-step, to figure out what's going on now.
I'd figure out how much all this is really worth your time and money, then either put the car back to stock or take it to a quality tuner. For me, it'd be a waste of the money I already put in it not to spend a little more for it to run right.
what if its something to do with the drive-by-wire system and involves the pedal placement/info to the ecu
For the most part, I think the pedal position is part of adaptive learning.. I replaced the entire TB, in case there was an issue with TAC or TPS.
My last datalog looked a little fishy on the actual throttle position, so I am going to add pedal position to the datalog so I can compare.. A couple times it looked like I was backing off on the throttle and then reapplying rapidly, and I don't remember doing that, but it might have been an involuntary reaction (either to the car losing traction or the sputtering/bogging/popping). For the most part, however, pedal position seems to reflect throttle position without any flaws..
Last night I was researching some troubleshooting tips for LTFTs and STFTs that are out of whack, and one piqued my interest.. Increased backpressure can cause fuel trims to pull fuel.. If I didn't make monster power on the top end, I would be more excited to check this, but usually clogged cats mean no power on the top end.. It would have to be some restriction that eases up when it heats up, and once flowing is no longer a restriction.. Something has to be causing it to pull tons of fuel..
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2006 GT Premium Vert, 5 spd, Tungsten Grey Show: Painted gloss black stripes, Street Scene Gen 1 body kit, side and hood scoops, CDC light bar, sequential tails, purple underglow, 8" shorty antenna, redline hood struts, Steeda Ultralights, 20" Chrome Killers, S.O.S. pillar & 3 gauges. Go: J&M LCA's & Adj. UCA, J&M Adj. Panhard, CHE LCA reloc brackets & torque limiters, 3.73 gears, Kenne Bell Stage 1 2.6l supercharger.
...440rwhp/401rwtq
if they are reading bogus then they are going to tell the puter the wrong info, hense the cold start-up woes. just a guess.
