Modern piston rings are not designed to work with an open crankcase. Actually, if you were to test the theory on an engine dyno you would see a DROP in horsepower from the closed system to the open system. The rings do not seal as tight. If you want to do it that way, you need the proper ring pack.
I’m not trying to argue with you, I know you know what you are doing.
Are you trying to say that an open crankcase breather system is not the best way to go on modern motors because the ring package was designed to work in a sealed system (PCV, emissions, etc)? If so I agree 100% the crankcase “system” (crankcase volume, PVC valve, other type of valve, hose, breather tank/expansion chamber, etc) has to be “tuned” for a modern motor or the ring package will not perform as designed and power/efficiency will suffer.
From the dyno work that I have done and the multiple crankcase breather systems I have tested (all on motorcycles though) I have found huge HP gains in putting in a reed valve(s) which is like a PCV valve but a lot better at what it does, using large diameter hose and using a large catch can/expansion chamber then running it back to the airbox or I the case of a car a intake. The large diameter tubing allows for crankcase pressure to escape and not create pressure on the backside of the pistons/rings. The reed valves open when they get a pressure pulse then slam shout creating a small vacuum which also keeps pressure off of the backside of the pistons/rings. The large catch can/expansion chamber effectively increases crankcase volume and allows the reed valves to work the way they are supposed to by allowing the pulses somewhere to go. Then the catch can/expansion chamber is “vented” to the intake which adds even more vacuum to the system helping with all aspects. And the bonus is that the large diameter hose, if run correctly, reed valves, big catch can, etc slow the pressure trying to get out of the crankcase so much (bigger diameter, less pressure) that the oil caught in suspension that usually makes it to the catch can drops out of suspension and drains back down the hoses back into the valve covers.
With the OEM breather system on the big Ducati twins (almost identical bore x stroke as a 4.6 but 2x+ the RPM) they would pump tons of oil when used at the track or riding wheelies. The airbox would be soaked and small puddles would form in the low spots. The gaskets would push oil too. With even a simple crankcase system in place it would push 95% less oil, gain 5-7% in HP and stop pushing oil past the gaskets.
Once I am done with my many projects (and figure out how to weld on the magnesium/aluminum/cast valve covers) I’m going to take a crack at a “real” breather system to see what I get out of it.
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Eventually you will not relate all the bike stuff to car stuff so much. Bike engines are so different in the conditions they run at as you know yourself. Weird stuff happens to piston rings at the piston speeds you are talking about, ESPECIALLY when it changes direction.
Remember, I worked for the company that makes the pistons and ring packs in our engines, I seen the various combinations in use, both NA and boosted. And, I did 15 ring and piston changes over 3 months on a turbo 3.2L V-6 monitoring everything you could think of. An AVL blow by meter is priceless. I know more than I care to remember about crankcase pressures and evacuation.
You don't need to weld to the cam covers. I pulled the fittings and tapped the holes NPT. For the PCV driver's side, I re-attached the tube with the PCV valve in it by machining the ID of 3/4 NPT to
-10AN fitting to accept the OD of the PCV tube. Then I used some amazing 2 part expoxy, that Ford uses to change the ports in their heads on the flow bench, to seal it up.
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2006 Legend Lime GT: Samco, Metco, LPW, Brembo 6 pot brakes with floating rotors, Magnacharger with 8-Rib, LubeLocker, Royal Purple, FR500S front end, APR Performance Carbon Fiber Rear Wing, Roll bar, 10 qt upgraded oil system...Thank you Capaldi Racing for all your help! 2007 Mustang GT/CS : Wife's Car, Magnacharged too. 1966 Mustang GT-K Code Coupe: Restored
Eventually you will not relate all the bike stuff to car stuff so much. Bike engines are so different in the conditions they run at as you know yourself. Weird stuff happens to piston rings at the piston speeds you are talking about, ESPECIALLY when it changes direction.
Oh come on, like double the piston speed makes a difference
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Remember, I worked for the company that makes the pistons and ring packs in our engines, I seen the various combinations in use, both NA and boosted. And, I did 15 ring and piston changes over 3 months on a turbo 3.2L V-6 monitoring everything you could think of. An AVL blow by meter is priceless. I know more than I care to remember about crankcase pressures and evacuation.
Oh I know, thats why I am so interested in your opinion on what the "perfect" setup is.
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You don't need to weld to the cam covers. I pulled the fittings and tapped the holes NPT. For the PCV driver's side, I re-attached the tube with the PCV valve in it by machining the ID of 3/4 NPT to
-10AN fitting to accept the OD of the PCV tube. Then I used some amazing 2 part expoxy, that Ford uses to change the ports in their heads on the flow bench, to seal it up.
But stakin' dimes just looks so cool! I'll probably end up going about it the way you did though. I just anted to weld two aluminum rings to the valve covers and thread them for NPT and run -16 fittings/line to my catch tank. I think my BA welder can weld it though. It will come down to how much he needs to practice though. I don't want to junk a valve cover to figure out what rod works best.
I would love a set of the Moroso valve covers but just can't justify the money unfortunately.
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Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
Its hard to tell from the pic. How big is that breather? Maybe a link? I am in the process of working on a crancase breather system with reed valves built in.
Have you popped the breather off and felt the exhaust pulses with your hand?
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Oh come on, like double the piston speed makes a difference
Oh I know, thats why I am so interested in your opinion on what the "perfect" setup is.
I would love a set of the Moroso valve covers but just can't justify the money unfortunately.
Remember what they say about opinions though One thing you probably will never see me do is comment on something I don't know well. It ticks my wife off because she says "You're always right". I said, no I am just not wrong to often because if I don't know, I find the answer before flapping at the gums
Let me know if/when you ever want those Moroso covers, we can figure something out I'm sure.
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Originally Posted by Black Baby II
So the moral to this story is - run a reputable catch can with as large of line as possible. Is that what I can take away from all off this ?
Thanks Beagle1, and by the way very nice set up there. And before you leave MI, turn out the lights !
(from a former Michigander)
Thanks! And someone better turn out the lights! This place is going down VERY FAST!
Thanks, I can't take all the credit. I learned it by doing and copied what I learned in a dyno cell and applied it to my car.
Funny thing though. Either my dipstick is out of calibration for the Canton Road Race Pan, my PCV system is too efficient, or Amsoil Interceptor Racing Oil is junk!!!
I used almost 2 qts of oil in 4 track sessions and about 250 miles of ciity driving. That's the 3rd time this year. And it's not smoking, and the throttle body is as dry as a bone Also pulls like a train.
Time for a compression and leak down test in the spring. Car is stored now. I wonder if I didn't hurt it last year at NMRA when it went lean at 1/2 track. 14:1 AFR at 9 psi and I stayed in it (running for points).
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2006 Legend Lime GT: Samco, Metco, LPW, Brembo 6 pot brakes with floating rotors, Magnacharger with 8-Rib, LubeLocker, Royal Purple, FR500S front end, APR Performance Carbon Fiber Rear Wing, Roll bar, 10 qt upgraded oil system...Thank you Capaldi Racing for all your help! 2007 Mustang GT/CS : Wife's Car, Magnacharged too. 1966 Mustang GT-K Code Coupe: Restored
Bike engines are so different in the conditions they run at as you know yourself. Weird stuff happens to piston rings at the piston speeds you are talking about, ESPECIALLY when it changes direction. 
Also pulls like a train. 
