[Tominator]

Unless a diesel or 2 stroke, EGT is not a useful tuning tool for most of us. The air fuel ratio is the most important perimeter, but a spike in EGT, on a gauge like the Zetronix that also has the aux-box, could save you from melting a piston or help diagnose a fuel or timing deficiency before it becomes a problem. You can program the Zetronix display to trigger a warning signal if any one of many preset perimeters go off the scale you preset.

Since the Zetronix display was capable, I added the capability to read EGT for the cost of the sensor. I would not spend the money on a dedicated system to read EGT. Worthless for 99% of us.

[BKid]

Originally Posted by Tominator

Unless a diesel or 2 stroke, EGT is not a useful tuning tool for most of us. The air fuel ratio is the most important perimeter, but a spike in EGT, on a gauge like the Zetronix that also has the aux-box, could save you from melting a piston or help diagnose a fuel or timing deficiency before it becomes a problem. You can program the Zetronix display to trigger a warning signal if any one of many preset perimeters go off the scale you preset.

Since the Zetronix display was capable, I added the capability to read EGT for the cost of the sensor. I would not spend the money on a dedicated system to read EGT. Worthless for 99% of us.

That is a nice set up you got there. I wish I would of seen this before I got the Innovate AFR gauge. Yet I am very happy with it,The thing is with these you need to replace the O2 sensors and the guage is only as good as the O2.

[Beagle1]

Not very happy with my Innovate at all. I think they may be good for chassis dyno work, but to leave in the car and use...I think they SUCK!

Mine is always freakin' out and freezing up. It was almost EXACTLY 12 minutes into a 20 minute track event when it would flake out everytime. I have checked and doubled checked all the grounds, feedback, etc. etc. It just can't handle the heat. Literally. I always get an over heated flash code. And I don't even have cats!

My buddy's always craps out too. I think I may go with an ETAS unit next, or an NTK. High end stuff like they use in NASCAR and F1 dyno cells.

[93_chargedcobra]

Originally Posted by Beagle1

Not very happy with my Innovate at all. I think they may be good for chassis dyno work, but to leave in the car and use...I think they SUCK!

Nope innovate stuff is not good for chassis dyno either. When I was less informed I had their lm-1 and did nothing but replace sensors. I Would never recommend an innovate w/b to anybody for anything.

[Beagle1]

Originally Posted by 93_chargedcobra

Nope innovate stuff is not good for chassis dyno either. When I was less informed I had their lm-1 and did nothing but replace sensors. I Would never recommend an innovate w/b to anybody for anything.

Thanks for the heads up. Just as I thought POS.

[sqidd]

Originally Posted by jgorm

If you are looking for stealth you can't beat the dm-200 obdii gauge in my mirror (avatar). It can display up to 4 parameters including AFR and EGT if you have the right modules.
DM-200 pictures
I had a zeitronix for a while, but i didn't like the display. The datalogging is cool, and recording the max boost and egt was cool too.
pic of zeitronix under my radio

Wow, that is trick. So you purchased the DM-200 and the sensors/senders or does it come with the sensors senders you need?

For example what did you purchase to make your kit complete?

What perameters are you tracking with yours the most? I am mostly after the A/F ratio information. The rest doesn't hurt but a lot of it is redundant for me since I have a lot of it already reading out on my digital LCD dash. Are the four optional readouts fixed? Or can I pick the perameters I would like to read out on one screen.

From what I can tell you got the DM-200 and removed the display from their surround and sunk it into your mirror? Stands to reason I could do the same thing but make my own surround or sink it into the cars dash somehwhere else?

I do like the Zeitronix a lot for the simplicity and it reads out EXACTLY what I want but it is pretty big (thanks for the shot by the stereo). Tough choice. I can sink the Zeitronix into the dash like I did with my AIM research unit so it can't be seen unless you are sitting in the drivers seat but room is geeting scarce.

Your input on how "easy" you think removing the DM-200 and sinking it into another surface (I wouldn't be going with the mirror) was would be great.

thanks a lot

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by 93_chargedcobra

Nope innovate stuff is not good for chassis dyno either. When I was less informed I had their lm-1 and did nothing but replace sensors. I Would never recommend an innovate w/b to anybody for anything.

I have not had any issues with my Innovate wb for over a year now. It even melted on the header one time when I forgot to plug it back up and still worked like a champ.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...ad.php?t=11034

[Garyalpusa]

Originally Posted by Beagle1

Squidd, you really need to find something to do with your time besides sit around and think of this stuff LOL.

I have had EGTs on everything tweaked up that I owned up to my 06 Stang. On my sleds, all it did was tick me off. Especially on my 205hp Thundercat. Was always in the carbs.

I had a very successful and well known sled racer tell me it was a waste of time and money to have EGTs on my sled. He told me the piston will melt under WOT before you can react to the Digitron reading. I also ran Top Fuel type exposed tip T/Cs on my stuff for the fastest response time.

Also had an EGT on my diesel Super Duty because I was always messing with it.

Now, to answer your main question...why don't more use it? Because most don't know what they should be looking for as far as temp goes.

Here you open a can of worms. Once again, you know what I have done for a living in the past. I have run V8 F/I engines with as many as 16 egt thermocouples. Port, collector, pre-cat, post cat, cat brick 1" from face and front and back, etc. etc.

With AFR it is easier to install, more common for DAQ, and the safe "zone" is more widely known. Start installing EGTS and you are going to have to know what your safe temp is for your config. Long tubes, cats, no cats. If you have a turbo...then pre and post turbine. And where in the pipe to located it for the temp you are after. I say 4" pre cat and limit to 850ºC.

Also as was said, inlet temps. If you really want to use your time and have gauges, start trying to get a better CAC. Monitor temp in & out on a charge cooler and try to get a greater delta.

While your at it, find a spot for an Exhaust Back Pressure reading, that REALLY changes exhaust temps LOL

By the way...will you please quit making me think!

I agree with this...The EGT cannot adjust fast enough to make a difference in an automotive situation. In aircraft the EGT is used at cruise at a constant power setting. The mixture is leaned to peak and then set to 75 too 100 deg rich of peak for best power. Since the rise in the cost of fuel some manufacturers are recommending leaning to the lean side of peak for best economy. I do not see how this will help a car motor that is constantly changing power settings. Even on the highways you dont stay at a set power for any length of time.

[93_chargedcobra]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I have not had any issues with my Innovate wb for over a year now. It even melted on the header one time when I forgot to plug it back up and still worked like a champ.

LC-1 bullet proof ? - Innovate Motorsports Forum

I am glad yours is working for you, I still would not recommend them.

Here is why.

I've spent way to much time chasing my tail on tunes and the erroneous readings with these things its not even funny, on the dyno I've watched these vary by a full point or more. Calibration, new power supplies, different power sources, grounding source changes, even an entire different unit did not fix it a new sensor was the only solution, mind you the sensor I replacing usually had no more than 8-10 hours on it with cars using unleaded fuel. This isn't a sensor problem either its a O2 controller problem, there is no way I could get that many bad O2 sensors.

No real help from innovate on why, other than "everything sounds like its right it should work", and "the pulls wont be exact from run to to run" come on a full point or more?

Ive also had cars with the lc-1 and gauge on the dyno with the same results sometimes worse they would just go into error, when my good unit showed .2-.3 difference between pulls. Plus the amount of money i've spent on sensors I could have bought a good unit a long time ago.

I know quite a few other tuners with about the same experience as mine also.

Going on the lm-1 which the lc-1 is supposed to be the same electronics, I've had one person whom I trust say his old white cased lm-1 is great, but the newer ones he wont use because of the same problems I was having.

Once again I am very glad you haven't found your to be a waste of a lot of money like I did. I am also sure I havent changed your opinion which is fine, I am just telling my opinion.

[jgorm]

Originally Posted by sqidd

Wow, that is trick. So you purchased the DM-200 and the sensors/senders or does it come with the sensors senders you need?

Well my system if overkill for most normal people. I'm a plx dealer so i like to test out everything I sell. If you get a DM-200 obdii it will work with no sensor modules and just display obdii data. You can add sensor modules (like a WO2) at any time. More info

Originally Posted by Beagle1

My buddy's always craps out too. I think I may go with an ETAS unit next, or an NTK. High end stuff like they use in NASCAR and F1 dyno cells.

The AFM 1000 is a great high end wideband for about $1500.

Originally Posted by Garyalpusa

The EGT cannot adjust fast enough to make a difference in an automotive situation.

I'll agree that most users will not have any use for EGT, but as a tuner i find it usefull. Sometimes the AFR, timing, and power can look just fine, but the egts are sky high.

[Beagle1]

Originally Posted by jgorm

The AFM 1000 is a great high end wideband for about $1500.

You ever mess with any AEM WB? I am assuming based on how I have seen their gauges perform (warranty returns on my end) that their wide bands probably are good for the Miata crowd.

I have been considering going to FAST units also.

[jgorm]

Originally Posted by Beagle1

You ever mess with any AEM WB? I am assuming based on how I have seen their gauges perform (warranty returns on my end) that their wide bands probably are good for the Miata crowd.

I have been considering going to FAST units also.

Nope, never tried them. I think the fast is too big for most people. Someday when i find some time i'm doing a real wideband shootout, not some unscientific biased POS test like they did for the ford muscle test.
Why the Ford Muscle Wideband Shootout is full of BS - Trick Tuners Forums

[Beagle1]

Originally Posted by jgorm

Nope, never tried them. I think the fast is too big for most people. Someday when i find some time i'm doing a real wideband shootout, not some unscientific biased POS test like they did for the ford muscle test.
Why the Ford Muscle Wideband Shootout is full of BS - Trick Tuners Forums

No arguement there. I sure don't need a magazine article to tell me anything.

He who advertises the most wins. I have been really enlighted as to what REALLY goes on in the auto rag world since going into business for myself and meeting so many people in the industry. Let's just say I'll probably never make it in because I don't play that way.

[93_chargedcobra]

Originally Posted by Beagle1

He who advertises the most wins. I have been really enlighted as to what REALLY goes on in the auto rag world since going into business for myself and meeting so many people in the industry. Let's just say I'll probably never make it in because I don't play that way.

Yup I lost respect as soon as my car was in 5.0, and I seen how they operate.

[Beagle1]

Originally Posted by 93_chargedcobra

Yup I lost respect as soon as my car was in 5.0, and I seen how they operate.

Is that sarcasm or truth?

I spent a whole weekend with a part high quality manufactuer, I prefer not to mention, doing a Mustang show. We set up and shared a spot since I am carrying his line. He filled me in on some stuff about being contacted to be featured. It was going to cost him $2500 for a month to run an ad and HE HAD to write the article and get the pics and then they would edit and publish it. So what were they doing?

I dom't know if it's certain ones or all the mags. My buddy's car was a feature car last year in an issue. And the write up was great, the pics were great and we had a fun time doing it. But the free lancer that did it all is a well known great magazine guy.