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Old 06-14-2005   #1 (permalink)
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Default Question about Oil

Who will be putting Synthetic Oil in their car and why? Or why not?
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Old 06-14-2005   #2 (permalink)
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I'll let her break in with the stock oil then switch to synthetic (it's a garge queen so that may be a little while longer). I was slow to jump on the synthetic oil wagon but finally broke down and started using Mobil 1 a few years ago and instantly noticed better gas mileage on all my cars. That can only leave you to conclude it must reduce the internal friction which in the long term results in less engine wear. That good enough reason for me to use it!
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Old 06-14-2005   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypers
Who will be putting Synthetic Oil in their car and why? Or why not?
after about 7000mi (3rd oil change) I will go with Mobil 1 5w20 full syn.

always had good luck with it and people I trust in the automotive industry swear by the benifits of any syn oil

do a search on this and other forums for a boat load of debate on the subject

whatever you do, just change it on a regular basis and use the specified weight of oil, there are good reasons

no oil should go longer then 5000mi IMO
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Old 06-14-2005   #4 (permalink)
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I just did my first oil change (4700 miles) and switched to synthetic 10W-30. I've run it in all my vehicles for many years now. I feel better about it in the extreme heat of Houston summers.
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Old 06-14-2005   #5 (permalink)
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just change it on a regular basis and use the specified weight of oil, use 5w20 please!

if you have warrenty problems with engine and you can not produce records of specified weight oil used, you may have to pay for repair or replacement

the tolerences in modern Ford engines are very tight and the variable valve timing uses the oil to control its function

if Ford requires something as specific (and important) as oil weight, why do something else?
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Old 06-14-2005   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Over's GT
if Ford requires something as specific (and important) as oil weight, why do something else?
5w20 is too low in viscosity. The other extreme is race oils 20w50...
I use 10w30 synthetic. No expert but car makers found a small drop in oil viscosity incresaed mpg. We started seeing 5W30 first. Mpg is big issue for them, lower Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) means they can sell more SUV's and make a higher margin/$$$.

Corporate Average Fuel Economy

They don't want your engine to last too long after warranty, right?
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Old 06-14-2005   #7 (permalink)
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I strongly disagree with that.

Generally, those who design the cars and the engines that go in them are MUCH more knowledgable about the specific vehicle than the general public, you or me. I've seen countless very long debates on the subject, and they always end up determining that the manufacturer knows best. The 4.6 V8 is part of the Ford Modular V8 engine family. It's not uncommon to see these motors go 250,000 miles or more with scheduled maintenence, using the factory recommended 5w20. I believe the reason is that these newer V8s are built to much tighter tolerances, and require thinner oil for correct lubrication.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/sh...=oil+viscosity

This is a thread on a very popular ford truck website. This was started by someone stating he was running thicker oil than recommended, and it is relevent because the 5.4 is in the same family as the 4.6, and is virtually identical except for the stroke.
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Old 06-15-2005   #8 (permalink)
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Ok...lets make this easy...oil is used as much for cooling as for lube.
When they took sulfur and lead out of the gas it meant a bit less lube for the engine (both are very good lubricants). They used CASTOR oil in cars and plane engines...and that's a lot thinner than 5-20 oil.
HERE IS THE BEST I HAVE FOUND>>>
The Liquid That Acts Like a Solid
Oil has several purposes in a machine. It lubricates, cleans, and cools, carrying heat and debris away from surfaces of the parts it lubricates. Though a machine such as an internal combustion engine is made of metal parts, none of the parts actually touch, thanks to the oil. (If you hear a ticking or knock from your engine, that means parts are probably overcoming the lubricant and touching, and the engine may be headed toward failure.)
Oil, like any liquid, is non-compressible. It is this property that allows hydraulic systems to work. If you put oil in a closed vessel like a cylinder and press down on it with a piston, the oil will apply equal pressure to all the surfaces containing it. You can apply as much pressure as you want, but the oil will not compress. In this respect, the oil acts like a solid: although it is constantly flowing, it serves as a "wall" between the machine's parts, keeping them from touching.
Imagine the oil in your engine. It's under pressure, so it's acting like a soft, solid cushion and keeping the crankshaft from touching the friction bearings in which it rotates. In this scenario, the "solid" nature of the oil can be helpful or harmful, depending on its condition. When we find wear metals in your oil, it's the oil that's causing the parts to wear, not (usually) contact between metal parts. If the cushion of oil between the rotating shaft and the bearings is clean, it's like a slick tongue of Teflon. If it's dirty, it acts more like an abrasive pad. That is why it is vital to keep your oil clean if you expect to get long life from an engine or any other type of oil-wetted machine.
Well, you might think, that is why we use oil filters. And indeed, oil filters do help keep the oil clean, but only a little. Early engines didn't have filtered systems, and there was debate for many years after they were introduced whether they were really necessary and whether people would be willing to pay for them. Filters can only filter out the largest particles from the oil. The finer particles pass on through and cause abrasion at the oil-wetted parts. Dirty oil in an unfiltered system could be thought of as a 50-grit pad at the bearings. Dirty oil in a filtered system would still be a 220-grit pad.

The Importance of Viscosity?
The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness it is. Think about this: automakers are continually recommending lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil's ability to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness.
If that doesn't sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic transmission oil. But the manual transmission uses a very thick (sometimes up to 90W) gear lube oil. The gears of both types of transmissions will have a similar life span. We don't find any significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness.

Oil's Fourth Function
Oil is a wonderful substance that allows machines to work. It lubricates, cleans, and cools. If you use oil analysis, your oil has a fourth function too: The ability to provide information about how a system is wearing. Machines of similar manufacture will wear similarly. The wear levels present in a machine's oil can provide useful information about the unit's mechanical health. A poorly wearing machine will fail sooner. A really badly wearing machine may be in the process of failing, but if you catch the problem in time, you might be able to fix it, giving the engine new life.
Oil analysis is a relatively new technology compared to the many decades the industrial revolution has been with us. As its benefits become more clearly understood, we are only left to wonder, why didn't someone think of this sooner?
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Old 06-15-2005   #9 (permalink)
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I've had synthetic for about 5 years now and it works pretty good. As a rule of thumb anything I have that has over 250 hp or air cooled has synthetic in it. My mustang granted is a stock 3.8 but I put it in their any way for the longevity . Being the chief oil change engineer in the family, I also switched my dad's stuff to synthetic oil. His 55 chev gets 10w-30 and his softtail deuce gets 20w-50. I know their not mustangs I just wanted to list an example of inhertience investment

If I get completly stupid with this stuff I'll put some in his lawnmower to see what it does. It's a 20hp kawasaki liquid cooled 4 stroke in a johndeere mower. I told him for 6,000 bucks john deere ought to come and change the damn oil themselves. But that's just my thought.
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Old 06-15-2005   #10 (permalink)
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Just use Mobile 1 or Motorcraft (blend) 5W-20, and worry more about your paint finish. No need to lose sleep over this simple question. Change it every 5000 miles and use your dealer/service if they are good. Who needs the head ache? not me!
Enjoy your car!
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Old 06-15-2005   #11 (permalink)
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"if you have warrenty problems with engine and you can not produce records of specified weight oil used, you may have to pay for repair or replacement"

Utter B.S. The Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act states that if a manufacturer requires you to use a specific brand or grade of oil, they must provide it free of charge. That means you can use ANY oil of your choice, as long as it's API certified. The oil must also be shown to have caused the engine failure to deny a warranty claim. Go cry all you want, 10W30 is a better oil.
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Old 06-15-2005   #12 (permalink)
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That's not true, 10W30 is too thick for the Ford modular V8 motors. The oil is too thick to go back through the oil gallies inside the motor quick enough, leaving the bottom end of the motor starving for oil. Keep in mind, this is not a V8 from the '60s or '70s! It was designed in the early nineties and has been updated ever since, and is a thoroughly modern engine. 10W30 is a good grade of oil for most applications, but in this case it will shorten the life of your motor. If 5w20 is too thin, why are the Mod V8s proving to be nearly bulletproof past 200,000 miles running nothing but 5w20, while it's been proven that 10wXX causes premature failure. Saying 10w30 is a superior oil is like saying that all motors are built to the same specs and tolerances, just not true!


If you use 10w30, and by doing so, you cause the motor to fail, they WILL NOT cover it.
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Old 06-15-2005   #13 (permalink)
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After my first three oil changes (1st at 500 miles, 2nd at 1500 miles, and the 3rd at 3000 miles) I stick with a religious 3000 mile oil change interval and use Motorcraft 5W-20 along with the Motorcraft FL820-S filter. You will be very well-served with this oil and filter combination!

Using synthetics for such short oil change intervals is the equivalent of throwing money down the drain, and I personally would rather use Motorcraft on a 3000 mile change cycle than Mobil 1 at a 5000 or 7500 mile change cycle.

Although, if you can stock-up on the Mobil 1 when it is on sale at Pep Boys for $3.99 a quart, the economics of it start coming closer to making sense!
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Old 06-15-2005   #14 (permalink)
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Just so everyone knows, Motorcraft 5w20 has NO synthetic base oil in it. I work for Conoco/Phillips, we make Motorcraft oil for Ford. They use a "group 3" base oil, which is basically a "group 2" base oil that has been "hydrocracked", or in simpler terms, put through one more filtration process to clean more of the impurities out of the base oil. Thanks to our US court system, any oil manufacturer who "hydrocracks" an oil can call it a synthetic, even though there is not a single drop of synthetic in it!! I sell motor oil to MANY police departments in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area and not one of them uses 5w20 in any of thier Crown Victoria units. Most use 5w30, and some even use 15w40. 5w20 is a "recommendation", not a requirement. If you are going to use a synthetic, which I recommend, make sure it contains a PAO base oil, ie... AMSOIL, Mobil 1, Red Line. Do your research. I choose AMSOIL because they pioneered the synthetic oil industry, and they have the most experience, and broadest line of products. You can change your oil at 3000 to 5000 miles if you want to, but you are wasting your time, money, and creating un-needed waste oil. Most conventional oils will hold up to 7500 miles of use with no problem.
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Old 06-16-2005   #15 (permalink)
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You got it Kristang! I've been trying to tell my redneck friends for years but they won't listen. I acutally use Amsoil too but for an entirely different reason. It's american made. I spent 3 out of 9.5 years in the military serving in the gulf. I came back with a whole new appreciation on where we should get out oil from.






[quote=ddellwo]After my first three oil changes (1st at 500 miles, 2nd at 1500 miles, and the 3rd at 3000 miles) I stick with a religious 3000 mile oil change interval and use Motorcraft 5W-20 along with the Motorcraft FL820-S filter. You will be very well-served with this oil and filter combination!

Dude, this is exactly what jiffy lube wants you to say. They want to hear you say it every three months or 3,000 miles.

Being the redneck I am and listening to that on T.V. for years I believed it as gospel. Telling me I have to change it every three months or OPEC police would come and arrest me for vehicle abuse. Then in the next commercial have some additive company say if I didn't buy their "salvation in a bottle" then vehicular damnation awaited me. It's just when you start looking for facts, any facts on the subject that the truth comes to light.
Conventional oil just isn't good enough to run in your car very long. Even with the almighty API certification on it. It just isn't good enough. That's why they preach the 3month/3,000 miles. Because the oil companies know conventional oil won't last past that.

There is a reason you don't see hardly any additive companies go around squirting water on their motors or running engines with out oil in them. The government ran the same test with the engines and they all blew up! The government then sued slick 50 and the others for false advertising. So the additive companies pulled the ads.

One final note: I read this book called The Motor Oil Bilbe and the myth of the 3,000 oil change. www.motoroilbible.com . That book will tell you everything you need to know and completly change you perspective on oil changes and additives. Once you find out the amount of BS the quick lube places put out and the fear they instill you will never go back to conventional again. This is just my two cents. Take what I say with a grain of salt. I just don't like seeing my brethern of the Stang getting the run around, that's all. :thumbsup
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