[thump_rrr]

Originally Posted by Terry5357

That interpretation is correct and right on target.........are you a machinists or tool maker

Thank You,

My trade is HVAC/R but I enjoy learning about all things mechanical or technical.

[Terry5357]

Originally Posted by thump_rrr

Thank You,

My trade is HVAC/R but I enjoy learning about all things mechanical or technical.

LMAO I'm a toolmaker by trade, but Jack of all, Master of none, except toolmaker (leaned that by osmosis) I have done a LOT of searching and surfing trying to get up to speed on the new ECM controlled engines. I come from the carb, header, cam, scattershield, Dana 60 era.

The journey to some understanding has consumed many internet hours.
I'm really glad that I am sort of starting to catch what's being dropped, cause my wife is getting a bit annoyed with me interneting so much.

Anyway, everyone here has been a tremendous help in my coming to enlightenment. And I can't thank you all enough. I know I have just begun and there's MUCH, MUCH more to learn, this forum makes my schooling not only enlightening but incredably enjoyable.

I am now moving into the supension upgrades so you will see many questions in that section.

anyway thanks again.

[kj_cinci]

I know ALL about the wife/car/AFM issues... sigh...

[stlwagon]

Originally Posted by thump_rrr

I would like to correct you on 2 points
1)The car must be supported by the rear axle so that the LCA's are installed and torqued under load.
2)The torque spec for the LCA's is actually 129lb-ft

Well, I followed the BMR directions that came with mine:
Lower Control Arms Installation:
1. Lift vehicle and support with jack stands under frame rails.
2. Using the 19mm wrench, remove all 4 sway bar bolts and remove sway bar.
3. Using the 21mm wrenches, remove both bolts from one control arm and remove arm. Clean and lube the bushing mounting surfaces. Lube the outside of the poly bushings and install the new control arm. Do not tighten bolts. Repeat this step for the other side.
4. Once both new control arms are installed and bolts are finger tight, load the rear suspension by placing the jack stands under the axle. This is required to properly load the bushings before tightening the mounting bolts. Tighten bolts to 85-90 ft/lbs.
5. Using a grease gun, lube all fittings (rubber bushings do not require lube). Lower car.

So is BMR passing out bad gouge on their instructions??

[don_w]

Originally Posted by stlwagon

Well, I followed the BMR directions that came with mine:
Lower Control Arms Installation:
1. Lift vehicle and support with jack stands under frame rails.
2. Using the 19mm wrench, remove all 4 sway bar bolts and remove sway bar.
3. Using the 21mm wrenches, remove both bolts from one control arm and remove arm. Clean and lube the bushing mounting surfaces. Lube the outside of the poly bushings and install the new control arm. Do not tighten bolts. Repeat this step for the other side.
4. Once both new control arms are installed and bolts are finger tight, load the rear suspension by placing the jack stands under the axle. This is required to properly load the bushings before tightening the mounting bolts. Tighten bolts to 85-90 ft/lbs.
5. Using a grease gun, lube all fittings (rubber bushings do not require lube). Lower car.

So is BMR passing out bad gouge on their instructions??

Ummm... read the blue text.

[stlwagon]

Originally Posted by don_w

Ummm... read the blue text.

Huh... Missed that part on the original install. Wonder if that was a contributing factor to the bushing failure?

[thump_rrr]

Originally Posted by stlwagon

Huh... Missed that part on the original install. Wonder if that was a contributing factor to the bushing failure?

In my opinion (and everyone will tell you I've said it many times) don't use a grease gun on any polyurethane bushings.
People who use grease guns are usually old enough to remember pumping grease into balljoints till the rubber boots expand.
The hydraulic pressure exerted by a grease gun will split a bushing.
Disassemble all bushings and hand lube (no jokes please) using Energy Suspension
Formula 5 Prelube.
It can be found at Jegs or any suspension shop. $10.00 for an 8oz. tub.

[stlwagon]

Originally Posted by thump_rrr

In my opinion (and everyone will tell you I've said it many times) don't use a grease gun on any polyurethane bushings.
People who use grease guns are usually old enough to remember pumping grease into balljoints till the rubber boots expand.
The hydraulic pressure exerted by a grease gun will split a bushing.
Disassemble all bushings and hand lube (no jokes please) using Energy Suspension
Formula 5 Prelube.
It can be found at Jegs or any suspension shop. $10.00 for an 8oz. tub.

Great tip... I've since changed to the CHE LCAs with the self lubricating Delrin bushings. No problems since.

[travelers]

Originally Posted by stlwagon

Well, I followed the BMR directions that came with mine:
Lower Control Arms Installation:
1. Lift vehicle and support with jack stands under frame rails.
2. Using the 19mm wrench, remove all 4 sway bar bolts and remove sway bar.
3. Using the 21mm wrenches, remove both bolts from one control arm and remove arm. Clean and lube the bushing mounting surfaces. Lube the outside of the poly bushings and install the new control arm. Do not tighten bolts. Repeat this step for the other side.
4. Once both new control arms are installed and bolts are finger tight, load the rear suspension by placing the jack stands under the axle. This is required to properly load the bushings before tightening the mounting bolts. Tighten bolts to 85-90 ft/lbs.
5. Using a grease gun, lube all fittings (rubber bushings do not require lube). Lower car.

So is BMR passing out bad gouge on their instructions??

Did the BMRs come with new bolts? If so maybe there supplied bolts only required the 85-90 ft/lbs of torque. I couldn't read the artical but is Ford LCA bolts one time use?
I also see some LCA come with greas fitting. I was also considering the CHE LCAs and came across the J&A LCA. There setup has the harder poly in the center as a ball and the side bushing are of the softer poly to keep the axle form binding in turns. The ball holds it in place if you doing burnouts. There reasoning is to put less stress on the torque boxes on the frame or body.

I e-mailed them and they are coming out with UCAs soon. They only have the LCAs at the moment.

[stlwagon]

Originally Posted by travelers

I was also considering the CHE LCAs and came across the J&A LCA. There setup has the harder poly in the center as a ball and the side bushing are of the softer poly to keep the axle form binding in turns. The ball holds it in place if you doing burnouts. There reasoning is to put less stress on the torque boxes on the frame or body.

I e-mailed them and they are coming out with UCAs soon. They only have the LCAs at the moment.

Those sound like they have potential... I'm very happy with the CHEs. They're far better than my old BMRs.

[travelers]

Originally Posted by stlwagon

Those sound like they have potential... I'm very happy with the CHEs. They're far better than my old BMRs.

When I get paid from my last TDY I'm getting the J&A LCAs. I'm also hoping they come out with the uppers soon. I'll let you know how they work out. I should be able to get the Spec Ds also. Don't know when I'll get the time to put them in....but at least I'll have them

[06hoss]

Originally Posted by stlwagon

Huh... Missed that part on the original install. Wonder if that was a contributing factor to the bushing failure?

I've heard conflicting opinions on that one...some guys say that if you don't preload the suspension before torqueing the bolts down, that it can tear the bushings, others say no way. But, it makes sense that the bushings might bind a little if you don't preload first so maybe that's why you lost one.

I have never had wheel hop, but maybe it's the fact that I have 18s.
I now have CHE LCAs, but I never had the wheel hop before I got them.

KJ, I have a pinion gauge (a real one too, not a gravity type gauge) if you ever want to check your pinion angle, it's real easy. We could do it in about a minute after we jack the car up. I still have to check mine to make sure MD got it right, but I've got no vibration...just a little louder than usual whirring noise from the drive shaft at high rpms.

[cekim]

Originally Posted by 06hoss

I've heard conflicting opinions on that one...some guys say that if you don't preload the suspension before torqueing the bolts down, that it can tear the bushings, others say no way. But, it makes sense that the bushings might bind a little if you don't preload first so maybe that's why you lost one.

Anything that has a "bushing" on this setup rather than a rod-end MUST be pre-loaded - there is no opinion or debate on that...

If you don't you are twisting the bushing at normal ride height (i.e. most all the time) and it will fail prematurely...

When you torque down the bolt, you are compressing the LCA/UCA bracket against the inner sleeve of the bushing...

From that point on, the sleeve should never rotate relative to the bracket...

So all of the movement comes from flex in the bushing....

[06hoss]

Yeah, I hear you and agree, but what some guys are saying is that the inner most sleeve on the bushing is actually metal and even though you compress the poly part of the bushing down until you hit the metal sleeve that if they're lubed with silicone on their sides prior to install, that they will rotate just enough even while compressed to avoid tearing.

That theory sounds a little out there, but I guess it could still be possible.

Makes more sense to preload first though.

[cekim]

Originally Posted by 06hoss

Yeah, I hear you and agree, but what some guys are saying is that the inner most sleeve on the bushing is actually metal and even though you compress the poly part of the bushing down until you hit the metal sleeve that if they're lubed with silicone on their sides prior to install, that they will rotate just enough even while compressed to avoid tearing.

That theory sounds a little out there, but I guess it could still be possible.

Makes more sense to preload first though.

If they can rotate, they can move, if they can move, they can clunk and tear themselves up...

The lube is there so that the sides of the bushing can twist freely - the 129ft-lbs of torque is there to make sure the sleeve does not move... If it isnt doing the job then the bolt has lost some of its strength and needs to be replaced...

Strictly speaking, they are torque-to-yeild bolts last I checked which means one-time use - after the first time - all bets are off, if the show any signs of moving around, they should definitely be replaced...