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Old 01-17-2005   #1 (permalink)
Vandil is offline Made Member

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Default Very limited boost potential for the 05?

I'm reposting this from another stang forum. Is this confirmed BS ?




So today I had the distinguished honor to disassemble a 2005 GT crate engine. Now, while in the past, I have disagreed with fordand their decisions regarding mod motors. However, I regret to inform everybody that the new 2005 GT cannot be supercharged:

In an effort to increase the combustion efficiency and reduce emissions, Ford has created a piston that will not handle ANY boost. The top ring is less than .100 inches from the top of the piston in 2 areas, and .200 or so in other areas. Ford has also used a cast iron ring land, which is then cast into the piston. I'm not entirely sure of the process they use, but the piston itself is made of 2 materials.

So because of the very small ringlands, the hypereutectic pistons won't survive any boost, let alone any error in N/A tuning, and even if the pistons survived the tune, the increased cylinder temps would cause the dissimilar materials to separate.

I will post pics on monday night as I forgot to bring my digital camera to the shop.

Just a few points -

The top ring land on the new piston is the same as the current 2V piston except where the valve notches are (as noted by Trumps). The 2V motors have proven to be pretty durable under boost but the extra notches could certainly be a weak point. As a few have mentioned, it may be wise to let others go through the headaches of being the first boosted 05 GT.

Also, the pistons have a hard anodized area around the top ring land, I think this is what Trumps was referring to when he guessed cast iron. It's still aluminum, but the anodizing helps prevent micro-welding.

************************
On the cost issue - like it or not, cars are designed for the mass market, not the enthusiast. In the past, people were able to boost power levels because the parts were overbuilt because of lack of good data. As engineers have learned more and gotten better analytical tools, safety factors have decreased and parts are pared down to minimum cost, weight, etc. In this case, that means the good old days of things like forged pistons from the factory are long gone and you're just going to have to get used to the idea of new pistons if you want forced induction.

***********************
Tob, you must understand that the "typical american idiot consumer" is 95% of the audience for this car. Including the GT. Including "enthusiasts", most of whom will bolt on a catback and a set of wheels and call it good. Like it or not, we (real enthusiasts) are the minority. The number of people who will ever actually need a stronger bottom end in one of these motors is very small, and most of them will build it themselves.

Designing something as complex as a car is a series of tradeoffs. You could build a totally bulletproof motor, but the cost would be very high and most of the buyers would never know the difference.

Given a tradeoff between overbuilding a motor so that people who violate their warranties can push them harder or saving cost, Ford will choose cost. Every time. So will GM, Toyota, BMW, or any other car company. Every time.

I'm not saying it's wrong or right, that's just the way it works. But I won't be parting with my "bad data" Fox Mustang any time soon, either....
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Old 01-17-2005   #2 (permalink)
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sounds like mis-information to me considering that saleen offers a supercharged 05 and there were some at the SEMA show.
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Old 01-17-2005   #3 (permalink)
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Doesn't seem like a problem to me.
http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=129
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Old 01-17-2005   #4 (permalink)
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Sounds like BS to me? I don't see why we would have any supercharging or turbo charging our motors, Sounds like the same crap they told me about my HEMI and now I have an STS Turbo and have been running for 3 months with no problems....

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Old 01-17-2005   #5 (permalink)
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I've heard this is BS, too. I'm still curious to see how reliable someone ELSE'S Stang runs with one, though.

I'm staying away for now...I want mine to run well over 100K miles!
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Old 01-17-2005   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah I would never Supercharge or turbo my ride under 75K thats just stupid and if you have the extended warranty 100k at least..



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Originally Posted by loudog
I've heard this is BS, too. I'm still curious to see how reliable someone ELSE'S Stang runs with one, though.

I'm staying away for now...I want mine to run well over 100K miles!
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Old 01-17-2005   #7 (permalink)
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Its B.S. because Ford will be offering a supercharger for the 05 Mustang very soon. That fact that he stated the Mustang wasn't built with 'enthusiast in mind' proves that its B.S. All you have to do is look at the mandrell bent exhaust, short throw shifter and all the aftermarket companies Ford gave early production Mustangs to. Yes the engine won't handle large amount of boost, 6-9 psi shouldn't be a problem. Also unless he works at a engine remanufactor he won't be able to disassemble an engine enough to make all those claims. I should know since I work at a Ford dealer and if we had a problem with a 2005 engine Ford would send out a engine off the assembly line. As I have replaced engines in nearly new Lightnings and SC Cobras and never did I disasemble those engines.
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Old 01-18-2005   #8 (permalink)
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Saleen and Roush offer a Supercharged '05. I haven't seen the Saleen but I saw a supercharged Roush here in Brandon Ford.
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Old 01-18-2005   #9 (permalink)
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here is 3DCarbons Supercharger made by Whipple putting out 500 rwh.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/photo...ort/1/cat/3269
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