I have eibach pro-kit springs with tokico shocks/struts and SSR competition wheels installed and they fit my stock pirelli's perfectly. What worrys me a bit is when I am on the freeway and driving about 70 or so and hit and bump it feels like the suspension is taking control of the wheel from me. After doing some research, I found that a Steeda Bump Steer Kit will correct this (http://www.steeda.ca/catalogue_product_type.asp?id=960). I have not had my car aligned since the installation of my shocks and springs, and do not know if I need to or not, and also if I need camber adjusters (http://www.steeda.ca/catalogue_product_type_968.asp). Any opinions/ideas?
Right now the ride is a bit rough, and I have tried most of the tokico settings and have them at 3.5 from full hard on front and rear. Anything else that might smoothen up the ride a bit?
EDIT: I made a new list of things that I would like to get, do you think it would be wise to get with my current situation?
Camber Adjustment Bolt Kit - 29.95
Bump Steer Kit - 159.95
Adjustable Panhard Bar - 159.95
HD Panhard Bar Brace - 79.95
Sportspix has written a treatise on suspension modifications that you can easily find elsewhere a few threads down on this forum. As far as ride quality is concerned, I have the same dampers as you but with Steeda Sport springs. My car rides as well if not better than stock. Your Eibachs lower the car a bit more but the tradeoff seems to be some loss of comfort. One other comment I would make is regarding wheels. I have Steeda 18's with the same model Pirelli's that come standard. I initially put on a set of 18 inch GTR replica wheels. From the moment I drove out of the tire store lot I thought, damn, I've ruined my car. It felt clumsy and every bump in the road felt magnified (and this was with stock suspension). Furthermore I hated the way those wheels looked on my car. Anyway, America's Tire graciously took the wheels back for a minimal restocking fee and I got the Steeda's. Suddenly my ride comfort reurned to normal. The point of all this is that those GTR replicas weighed about 5 lbs more per wheel than the Steeda's which made a very noticeable difference in the way the car drove. The SSR wheels you have are lighter yet so if anything will favor ride comfort even more.
Sportspix has written a treatise on suspension modifications that you can easily find elsewhere a few threads down on this forum. As far as ride quality is concerned, I have the same dampers as you but with Steeda Sport springs. My car rides as well if not better than stock. Your Eibachs lower the car a bit more but the tradeoff seems to be some loss of comfort. One other comment I would make is regarding wheels. I have Steeda 18's with the same model Pirelli's that come standard. I initially put on a set of 18 inch GTR replica wheels. From the moment I drove out of the tire store lot I thought, damn, I've ruined my car. It felt clumsy and every bump in the road felt magnified (and this was with stock suspension). Furthermore I hated the way those wheels looked on my car. Anyway, America's Tire graciously took the wheels back for a minimal restocking fee and I got the Steeda's. Suddenly my ride comfort reurned to normal. The point of all this is that those GTR replicas weighed about 5 lbs more per wheel than the Steeda's which made a very noticeable difference in the way the car drove. The SSR wheels you have are lighter yet so if anything will favor ride comfort even more.
Most of the above parts I have listed is because of what I have read from SportsPix. He was the one who reccomennded the eibach pro/tokico setup. Do you think it would be worth it for me to try the Steeda springs before spending money on the above parts? Did you have to have an alignment with camber bolts?
My car did not require camber bolts and there was no increase in bumpsteer. Steeda springs (I have the Ultralites) ride very comfortably. It all boils down to your ultimate goals. If you want razor-sharp handling and killer looks you're going to have to accept a less comfortable ride. I'm sure you could easily sell your Eibachs easily to lessen the blow.
I might have to give them a try, got any pictures of your car with them? Also you seem to differ, in your first response you told me you have the sport springs, and in the second one you say you have the ultralites, which do you have?
I have the Ultralites. The Steeda tech told me that the spring rates are virtually identical but since the Ultralites are lighter they are a bit more comfortable. The drop is also about the same, about an inch front and rear. The rear was supposed to drop a little more but it didn't turn out that way. I'll take some pictures tomorrow. As far as shock settings, I actually don't remember exactly since I did quite a bit of experimenting. Just for the heck of it one day I set them one turn from full stiff and even then the ride wasn't bad, about equal to my BMW Z4. From that point I softened them in quarter turn increments. They're probably between 3 1/4 and 3 3/4 turns from hard.
Just installed the Ultralites and Tokico's this weekend (along with all the other susp mods in my sig). Holy Cow, what a difference. I'm running 3.5 in back and 3 in front (from full hard) and she handles like a dream. Seems like she's pulling a bit to the right though when I let go of the wheel on a straight away. Going for an allignment in a week or so and see what I find.
Cool part is that my wife is 7 months pregnant and a rough ride is a no no. Went out yesterday and set the Tokico's to 6 all around. The ride was soooo smooth, I swear it was smoother than stock. She noticed a huge difference between 3 and 6. That by itself justified the extra $$ for the Tokico's. :-)
__________________
12.4 @ 111mph
Saleen S/C, Thump Tensioner, BGG 8 Rib, Kooks, Stingers, Gords, 4.10, Spec 3+, Pro 5.0, GT500 FPs, GT500 T/B, Ultralite Springs, DSpecs, Prothane Mounts, BMR - Adj. Panhard Bar, LCAs, LCA Relo Brackets, Adj. UCA, Rear Sway, Sway Delete/Rad Support
Just installed the Ultralites and Tokico's this weekend (along with all the other susp mods in my sig). Holy Cow, what a difference. I'm running 3.5 in back and 3 in front (from full hard) and she handles like a dream. Seems like she's pulling a bit to the right though when I let go of the wheel on a straight away. Going for an allignment in a week or so and see what I find.
Cool part is that my wife is 7 months pregnant and a rough ride is a no no. Went out yesterday and set the Tokico's to 6 all around. The ride was soooo smooth, I swear it was smoother than stock. She noticed a huge difference between 3 and 6. That by itself justified the extra $$ for the Tokico's. :-)
Congrats! That is just what I wanted to hear also...because I am going to change out my eibach pro-kit for the ultralites, got any pictures?
I've posted a lot of suspension stuff in the AFM forums and on the Mustang Forums, P.M.'d and replied to your posts quite a bit and AFAIK I covered all of this stuff with you. I also told you that you MUST get an alignment when you install new struts or springs. Your alignment problems are what is causing your car to be wierd handling. You also do not need the Steeda bumpsteer kit for your car. The Steeda bumpsteer kit is only needed if you have radically lowered your car or altered your suspension mounting points neither of which is the case here.
The most important thing the owner of the car must do when planning suspension and engine mods is to be PERFECTLY honest with themselves about what they want to use the car for, their mechanical and driving skill levels and what kind of roads and/or tracks they plan to drive on. If you are not going to take your car to the track don't install a high performance suspension. If you want to race or attend HPDE type events a nice soft stock riding car is not going to get the job done on the track.
You have to have realistic expectations of what the S197 GT is and what it can and cannot do and realize that there are usually trade offs to be made. If you want your car to ride as soft or softer than the stock GT you will be very unhappy with any actual high-performance sport spring and sport oriented struts and dampers or any spring for that matter that lowers the car more than 1" front or rear. If you want a lowered car that outperforms the stock S197GT you have to pay a price however small it may be in in terms of ride and noise issues. I've said this many times before and it is a basic truth, there's no free lunch.
Sure, if you want a soft riding car with a slightly lower appearance than stock by all means go with the Steeda Ultralite lowering springs and set your D-Specs way down in the 4 1/2 to 5 turns out from full soft. This is setup is much softer riding than the stock struts and springs but it also offers no performance advantage over a stock GT. A better setting would be to set your D-Specs to about 3 1/2 turns out from full hard in front and 4 turns from full hard out back for a reasonably nice ride but still with a level of improved control.
My suggestion is that you install that set of Eibach camber bolts I said you needed and temporarily adjust them to the most positive camber setting you can. Take a pass on the Steeda bumpsteer kit, almost nobody needs a bumpsteer kit on an S197 chassis. Then buy and install the Steeda adjustable Panhard bar and Steeda H.D. Panhard bar brace that I suggested you buy. Carefully center your rear axle with the axle loaded using a drive-on lift or stands with the pumpkin supported by a floor jack and lifted just before the point that the car is coming off the stands. Also make SURE that you lube and properly torque all of your suspension components while you are under the car including your new Steeda adjustable Panhard bar and PB support brace to ensure that they can support the loads you will subject them to.
Then go get a good alignment. From the sounds of your comments regarding ride you should probably be using the factory alignment specs. If you want an entry level performance oriented alignment that I KNOW works well with good tire life use 3/4 degree negative camber and 1/16"-0" toe out for your target alignment specs. Make sure that you tell them that you have the camber bolts installed and offer to show them the instruction sheet if they seem at all unfamilar with these parts. This should resolve your steering issues.
I have come up with these suspension combinations that work very well for the particular type of usage people have asked me for. I know for a fact that all of these settings and hardware combos work well because I have cooked them up and installed them on many of our local club member's S197GT chassis including my own 2005 S197GT. I see and email these club people all the time and get feedback on what they think and how well it is working for them. All of them are enthusiast drivers with various levels of driving skill and most are daily driven cars. None of them have complained about the poor ride that you have reported experiencing. All of them have made up their own suspension "kit" from my core performance suspension shopping list. All of them have had me install and adjust their suspension for them and all have had their cars aligned promptly. Almost all of them have installed the basic core performance suspension setup (some have gone farther), that I have posted and emailed with you about. All of them are very happy with the performance, ride and stance of their S197 cars.
I know what the comforatable strut and damper settings are and which settings are going to please the road course guys. I know which springs and suspension components add road noise and harshness and which ones don't. Jeez, look at my signature, I've had or currently have almost everything you can install on an S197 chassis using off the shelf suspension equipment for a road course type chassis. I test suspension components and chassis settings on low to medium speed (30-60MPH), turns and bumpy road surfaces on Mulholland Drive/Highway. For high-speed (70-140MPH+), performance testing I like to use the Pasadena Freeway and many of the large, fast cloverleaf ramps along the 210 and 134 freeways where the corner exit speeds (the speed at which you exit the turn and start to accellerate), can be well over 110MPH in my car. I'm pretty serious about performance and handling, probably a little bit more than you are but I still need my car to be usefull as a daily driver so I expect to give up a tiny bit of ultimate handling and grip for retaining a near stock ride.
Please try what I posted, I'm pretty sure that it will work as well for you as it has for the many locals here with my suspension setup.
Cheers/Chip
Quote:
Originally Posted by xeroinsanity
I have eibach pro-kit springs with tokico shocks/struts and SSR competition wheels installed and they fit my stock pirelli's perfectly. What worrys me a bit is when I am on the freeway and driving about 70 or so and hit and bump it feels like the suspension is taking control of the wheel from me. After doing some research, I found that a Steeda Bump Steer Kit will correct this (http://www.steeda.ca/catalogue_product_type.asp?id=960). I have not had my car aligned since the installation of my shocks and springs, and do not know if I need to or not, and also if I need camber adjusters (http://www.steeda.ca/catalogue_product_type_968.asp). Any opinions/ideas?
Right now the ride is a bit rough, and I have tried most of the tokico settings and have them at 3.5 from full hard on front and rear. Anything else that might smoothen up the ride a bit?
EDIT: I made a new list of things that I would like to get, do you think it would be wise to get with my current situation?
Camber Adjustment Bolt Kit - 29.95
Bump Steer Kit - 159.95
Adjustable Panhard Bar - 159.95
HD Panhard Bar Brace - 79.95
__________________
'05 Ford S197 Mineral Gray Mustang GT Too many mods to list, check my profile if interested
'95 BMW E36 Cosmos Schwartz M3 Mild restomod project with my teen-age sons
Hope you don't mind if I jump in on this thread to ask you a question about a previous post you made regarding suspension. I've found your posts to be extremely informative, and set out to follow your directions for setting up my GT.
I believe you listed a good starting set-up somewhere on AFM, but I can't find it right now. I took some notes and came away with the idea that Adjustable Struts/Dampers, Sport Springs, Adjustable Panhard Bar with Brace, and Front Lower Control Arm Tiebar was a good combo to start with.
I've purchased Tokico D-Specs, Steeda Sport Springs, Steeda Panhard Bar, and Steeda HD Race Panhard Bar Brace. I was wondering about the Front Lower Control Arm Tiebar. Is that the same as the Steeda G-Trac Brace?
Also, do you beleive that the Control Arm Relocation Kit is a necessity given the relatively small drop with Sport Springs? Would you recommend the Front Control Arm Bushing Kit?
__________________
05 GT Premium - Redfire Metallic - Silver Stripes - Red Leather Interior
Upgrades: Hurst Shifter; JLT II Intake w/ Evolution Performance Tune; Clear front bumper lights w/ Stealth Bulbs; Sequential turn signals; Midwest Auto Custom Plenum Cover; Strange Development Strut Tower Brace; Autovation Racing Pedals; Tokico D-Specs; Eibach Pro-Kit Springs; Steeda Front CA Bushings, G-Trac Brace, Adjustable Panhard Bar, and Heavy-Duty Panhard Brace
I don't mind at all and thank you for the nice words. I try my best on suspension stuff to help any and all who ask.
Yup, yup, yup, my recommended core suspension combo is made up of the following suspension components:
Tokico D-Spec struts and dampers PN#DSP-12, the BEST struts and dampers for the money
The Sport Springs of your choice, I prefer Eibach Pro-Kit Sport Springs PN#35101.140 or maybe Steeda's lowering spring PN#555-8206, depending on your intended use, road conditions and ride preferences the RIGHT springs for you may be different.
Eibach camber bolt kit, PN#5.81260K
Steeda adjustable Panhard bar with poly/poly bushings, PN#555.2551
Steeda H.D Panhard bar brace, PN#555.2555
Steeda G-Trac brace, this is a front control arm brace, PN#555-5530
Based on what you listed the only thing you are missing from my core performance suspension is Steeda's G-Trac brace. If you plan to install the front control arm relocation kit, at the time you install the relocation kit I would also install a Steeda G-Trac brace and Steeda's lower control arm bushing insert kit PN#555-4006. Do all of these parts at the same time because this will save good money on the installation cost of these parts.
Steeda engineered their sport spring rates to work well with their anti-roll bars. Together the Steeda springs and A-R bars are very well balanced. One of the reasons that Steeda can get away with a softer spring rate is that they also want to sell you a set of A-R bars. Much like the synergy between Steeda's sport springs and anti-roll bars Steeda's lower control arm relocation kit is designed to work perfectly with the Steeda sport springs and anti-roll bars. The Steeda lower control arm relocation kit almost fully restores the lost suspension geometry that was altered by using the sport springs. Steeda could only do so much because there is a limited amount of space available to relocate the control arm because of the large hydro-bushings used in the control arms. I highly recommend Steeda's control arm relocation kit but it's not really going to make a huge difference on you car. But that said I still suggest Steeda's front control arm bushing kit and G-Trac brace.
When you get all this stuff installed you need to get your car aligned. If you want an aggressive street performance alignment spec. set your target alignment specs to -1.5 degrees negative camber and 1/16" toe out measured wih the car rolled forward to get a good toe measurement reading. Another tip is that when bolting the struts into the strut towers make sure that you push the tops of the strut bearings in toward each other and at the same time toward the front of the chassis. Doing this will give you a slight increase in caster angle and allow you to reach the camber setting you need to make the car stick well in front. Combined with the toe setting I spec'd the car will want to turn in well.
For a less aggressive alignment setting consider using -0.75 degrees negative camber and 0/0" toe. This alignment spec will make the car a bit less grippy in front so it will tend to push more in slow turns than the aggressive setting and it will also be a bit less nervous on the freeway when yo want to cruise.
Did I answer your questions? I hope this helps! If you have any questions please don;t hesitate to ask!
Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayDKay
SportsPix,
Hope you don't mind if I jump in on this thread to ask you a question about a previous post you made regarding suspension. I've found your posts to be extremely informative, and set out to follow your directions for setting up my GT.
I believe you listed a good starting set-up somewhere on AFM, but I can't find it right now. I took some notes and came away with the idea that Adjustable Struts/Dampers, Sport Springs, Adjustable Panhard Bar with Brace, and Front Lower Control Arm Tiebar was a good combo to start with.
I've purchased Tokico D-Specs, Steeda Sport Springs, Steeda Panhard Bar, and Steeda HD Race Panhard Bar Brace. I was wondering about the Front Lower Control Arm Tiebar. Is that the same as the Steeda G-Trac Brace?
Also, do you beleive that the Control Arm Relocation Kit is a necessity given the relatively small drop with Sport Springs? Would you recommend the Front Control Arm Bushing Kit?
__________________
'05 Ford S197 Mineral Gray Mustang GT Too many mods to list, check my profile if interested
'95 BMW E36 Cosmos Schwartz M3 Mild restomod project with my teen-age sons
Thanks, SportsPix. Can't wait to get those parts in. I wanted the springs mostly for the lowered look, but now I'm excited about the improved performance potential with the whole kit.
__________________
05 GT Premium - Redfire Metallic - Silver Stripes - Red Leather Interior
Upgrades: Hurst Shifter; JLT II Intake w/ Evolution Performance Tune; Clear front bumper lights w/ Stealth Bulbs; Sequential turn signals; Midwest Auto Custom Plenum Cover; Strange Development Strut Tower Brace; Autovation Racing Pedals; Tokico D-Specs; Eibach Pro-Kit Springs; Steeda Front CA Bushings, G-Trac Brace, Adjustable Panhard Bar, and Heavy-Duty Panhard Brace
Eibach Pro-Kit and Tokico Shocks 
