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2005-2010 Mustang Talk Forum

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Unread 04-05-2010   #1 (permalink)
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Default Ford Racing Hot Rod Performance Camshafts??

How much hp do these actually net? are they worth it?
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Unread 04-05-2010   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyDewy View Post
How much hp do these actually net? are they worth it?




In my personal opinion any of the Comp “Thumper” cams or the FFRP “Hot Rod” cams are stupid and counterproductive. They were designed to give you a rough idle to mimic the sound of a “big” cam but they don’t have the performance level of a “big” cam. So what you ed up with is a cam that runs like crap down low ad doesn’t give much performance increase. I call them “fashion cams”. They are like taking a V-6 Mustang and doing a GT500 replica.

And if the cams don’t require a valvespring change then they are not worth the time and money. To justify spending the money on the cams they need to make some serious steam, there not cheap by the time you are done with labor. And a cam that can use the stock valvesprings is by definition a “small cam”.

Take a look at the Comp Cam XFI series VSR’s (Valve springs required). The 127100’s would be a great street cam with a good performance gain but without the downsides of a “Race cam”. Here is a link:

These are the specs stage 1 #127100:
214/227 @.50 duration, lift .480/.470, LSA 114

Here are the specs for the stock cams:
175/193 @.50 duration, lift .432/.435, LSA 117.25

As you can see even the stage 1 cams are a pretty big jump. They will get you 20+hp over 3500rpm ad have a nice rumble at idle. If you don’t understand what the specs mean PM me and I will walk you through it

Keep in mind the single largest mistake people make is to “Over cam” their car. When it comes to cams bigger is not better 99% of the time.

To take full advantage of the cams you will want your heads CNC’d. You don’t have to do it at the same time but keep it in mind for your next step.
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Unread 04-05-2010   #3 (permalink)
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I would not waste too much time buying cams and doing head work into the car unless you expect to spend more money than most and have less horsepower all for the benefit the telling those this simple yet powerful line....

I'm all motor.

These 3v 4.6L do not benefit from cams like you would find in a LS1 engine.
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Unread 04-05-2010   #4 (permalink)
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Try using the search function. There are probably more threads about hot rod cams than any other mustang thread on the internet.
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Unread 04-05-2010   #5 (permalink)
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My Ford hot rod "fashion" cams picked up 28 wrhp and 0 rwtq when I was normally aspirated. Same tuner, same dyno on the same day. I'm happy with them.
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Unread 04-05-2010   #6 (permalink)
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I havent been on the dyno yet so I dont know how much HP I picked up. the reason I got them was because the install didnt cost me a dime. Now If I had to pay $600 plus to install them...that would be another story. and I must say they do sound good! Ihave a X pipe now but looking into a H. then Ill be set
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Unread 04-06-2010   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonballi View Post
My Ford hot rod "fashion" cams picked up 28 wrhp and 0 rwtq when I was normally aspirated. Same tuner, same dyno on the same day. I'm happy with them.
Did you loose torque?

And you picked up 28rwhp because you are FI. A NA motor won't see anywhere near that.

I've seen the Comp VSR Stage II Blower Grind cams pick up 36hp on a FI car running 8psi and there were massive gains in the area under the curve. At 3,800rpm if had 51 more hp. The torque curve was flat as a pancake. I imagine it has massive traction issues.
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Unread 04-06-2010   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sqidd View Post
Did you loose torque?

And you picked up 28rwhp because you are FI. A NA motor won't see anywhere near that.

I've seen the Comp VSR Stage II Blower Grind cams pick up 36hp on a FI car running 8psi and there were massive gains in the area under the curve. At 3,800rpm if had 51 more hp. The torque curve was flat as a pancake. I imagine it has massive traction issues.
I picked up 48rwhp. I went from 280rwp to 328rwp. That was pre-delete plates and 2 degrees of timing pulled for a 100 shot. I didn't lose any torque down low either. It's all in the tune
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Unread 04-06-2010   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheKurgan View Post
I picked up 48rwhp. I went from 280rwp to 328rwp. That was pre-delete plates and 2 degrees of timing pulled for a 100 shot. I didn't lose any torque down low either. It's all in the tune
I consider you to be a very experienced realist when it comes to hot rodding. You are one of the few people that I would ask advice. But without any other supporting mods that make for a perfectly balanced combination I find that extraordinary.

I’m assuming you have LT’s? They would certainly compliment the cams. What LT’s do you have? I wonder if you happened across a set with the ideal pipe diameter, collector design and primary tube length. As you know everything is combination, combination, combination.

I still think the Comp SPR cams offer more potential simply because they offer more cranking compression. With the right combination of course.

All that being said every combination has a cam that will get the most out of it. With enough data (header design info, boost if FI, intake runner length/flow, head port flow/velocity, etc, etc) a custom cam could be ground for each individual application and see massive gains. In reality over the counter cams are a “One size fits all” situation. A perfect example of this is the builds that are done for the Engine Masters Challenge (EMC). All of the front runners are using custom ground cams based on their combination ad while on the dyno will still mess with cam timing to get the most out of them. And the custom came route obviously pays off. The EMC motors for the most part are incredibly simple combinations but every last detail is perfectly complimentary and balanced and for the amount of trick stuff they are running they are throwing down some crazy high numbers.

On the flip side there are motors with the entire catalog thrown at them that don’t make nearly the power expected.

I would love to do a custom set of cams for my car based off of my combination opposed to springing for some one size fits all “close enough” ones.
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Unread 04-06-2010   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKurgan View Post
I picked up 48rwhp. I went from 280rwp to 328rwp. That was pre-delete plates and 2 degrees of timing pulled for a 100 shot. I didn't lose any torque down low either. It's all in the tune
Was that before spraying. I was thinking 127500's the comp site claims biggest cams for unported heads with good drivability. The site alos showed the dyno chart with no bottom end loss and around a 48 hp gain on top. They show the dyno charts for all there cams and that was the best performer they had. I know each of our cars will act differently to the same mod, so anything is possible. That just doesn't seem like a good bang for the buck. They rock with FI though.
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RWHP/RWTQ is adequate
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Unread 04-06-2010   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sqidd View Post
I consider you to be a very experienced realist when it comes to hot rodding. You are one of the few people that I would ask advice. But without any other supporting mods that make for a perfectly balanced combination I find that extraordinary.

I’m assuming you have LT’s? They would certainly compliment the cams. What LT’s do you have? I wonder if you happened across a set with the ideal pipe diameter, collector design and primary tube length. As you know everything is combination, combination, combination.

I still think the Comp SPR cams offer more potential simply because they offer more cranking compression. With the right combination of course.
I have 1 5/8 Kooks, but I do not believe they added more than 5 HP of that gain. I have a buddy with exact same mods as me minus the cams and he was down around 305whp(and he had delete plates too). Now he has FRPP cams and is at the same HP. I was a firm believer in LT's until that.

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Was that before spraying. I was thinking 127500's the comp site claims biggest cams for unported heads with good drivability. The site alos showed the dyno chart with no bottom end loss and around a 48 hp gain on top. They show the dyno charts for all there cams and that was the best performer they had. I know each of our cars will act differently to the same mod, so anything is possible. That just doesn't seem like a good bang for the buck. They rock with FI though.
It was with no nitrous. With a 100 wet shot and low bottle pressure I put down 410rwhp.

I'm not saying they are the best cams out there, but they were the best for me.
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Unread 04-06-2010   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheKurgan View Post

I'm not saying they are the best cams out there, but they were the best for me.
Bottom line, that's what really matters. Still trying to figure out what I really want with my car. Only run it at the strip on occasion, and then on test and tune night for the enjoyment of opening it up legally. I do like the oldschool sound. Not sure how much show as compared to go that I want.
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RWHP/RWTQ is adequate
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Unread 04-06-2010   #13 (permalink)
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Agreed, really depends on what your goals are for the car.

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Originally Posted by redruder View Post
Bottom line, that's what really matters. Still trying to figure out what I really want with my car. Only run it at the strip on occasion, and then on test and tune night for the enjoyment of opening it up legally. I do like the oldschool sound. Not sure how much show as compared to go that I want.
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Unread 04-06-2010   #14 (permalink)
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Hey Jason...I think you mean "lose".

No I did not lose torque. The dyno showed no gain or loss in TQ. Also if you read in my post, the 28 rwhp was when I was N/A.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sqidd View Post
Did you loose torque?

And you picked up 28rwhp because you are FI. A NA motor won't see anywhere near that.

I've seen the Comp VSR Stage II Blower Grind cams pick up 36hp on a FI car running 8psi and there were massive gains in the area under the curve. At 3,800rpm if had 51 more hp. The torque curve was flat as a pancake. I imagine it has massive traction issues.
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Unread 04-06-2010   #15 (permalink)
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I went with the Hot Rod Cams, which did not impress me untill I had them dialed in better with a custom tune. I gained 19HP on the dyno and lost no torque. While it was not a big HP gain what I saw was lasting HP through the RPM curve. Stock cams started loosing HP at 5300RPM With the HR cams it didn't start to drop off until 6600 RPM. It is making 320HP with the cams, delete plates, and a CAI, High flow cats and X pipe. They have hit almost 350 HP on a car like mine but with long tube headers.

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