Is the 5.0 "better" than the 4.6? - Page 3 - Ford Mustang Forum

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Originally Posted by AlloyPony View Post
I traded a 3-valve 4.6 car for a 2-valve 4.6 car and both felt similar to me. The guy who bought my old 3-valve is in our crew and when we race each other from a dig, we're fender to fender through 1st and 2nd and then in 3rd he start to pull a little. The 3-valve is slightly faster. With a few more mods I will be neck and neck with him again.

BOTH of these cars are completely and utterly destroyed by the new 5.0. Like, a Coyote car can start off behind either of us, pull out and pass us with ease at WOT. There is no comparison.
Best explanation yet.
But the title of this thread is vague. "Better" in what aspect?
More high end Horsepower? Yes, the 5.0 is better. But once again, it's all subjective. I don't feel I've "missed out" on the coyote. I could go out any day and get an 11-13 for under 20k.......I don't want one. I could list reasons but it would piss off a lot of owners.
For me, my car has all the bases covered for what I need and why I like it.
So for all the 5.0 garage queens....................see ya next summer. Lol


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Is the 5.0 "better" than the 4.6?

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Originally Posted by JD08 View Post
You are correct. I was looking at the wrong figure on my phone. The philosophy is still the same though. The seat of your pants feel comes from torque. That's why a 1989 5.0 with 225/300 hp/tq feels faster than a 2011 V6 with 305/280. The 2011 V6 will post a better 1/4 time, but the torque curve of the 89 made it a lot more fun to drive.

That and the new ones have a way more refined ride than the fox I'm assuming. My maxima would've smoked my old fox but the fox felt more "raw" where the maxima is more cushy and it takes off quiet and drama free. With the fox you could hear every engine note and feel every vibration the "monstrous" 300 ft lbs made. The power band would come on loud and max power was made at a low rpm. There wasn't much of it but you felt every bit. Kinda like riding in a 200 hp tin can. Think how light the foxes were too. They weren't super light but didn't feel heavy and solid really.
My '95 is kind of the same way only it's not quite as "tin can" like but it doesn't feel or handle like a new car even after the bulk of the stuff has been restored. As far as the feel and the power delivery, it's only making 334 ft lbs at the rear but it comes on fast and at lowish rpm. But even if it was making 400 rwhp and 400 ft lbs max power would still be made around 6k rpms. It's not like a new v6 or 4 cyl that has to rev real high to make power.
The car with that makes max power at a lower rpm might have a chance to beat a car that's making more power at a higher rpm as long as the road doesn't get too long.

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A guy at work just got a '10 GT and it's pretty sharp. I'd like a '10-14 body style with 'the '17's gizmos and power.


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Then go with an 11-12 GT. You get the 5.0 and I've heard there was a torque converter change for the 13-14 along with more traction control nannies that make a burn out either difficult or impossible.
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NA the 5.0 is better than the 3v. There is no disputing that. When you start adding boost things get fuzzy.

You can make 625-650rwhp "safely" on the 5.0 bottom end. But those numbers are out of reach while running 93 octane on all but the most extreme combos. 600rwhp is about the limit on pump gas while running 93.

The 3v will chuck the rods out of it at 450-500rwhp. But if you do good rods pistons (which is really not that expensive) you can get more power out of the 3v on 93 than you can the 5.0. The compression ratio is so high on the 5.0 that you're boost limited to about 10.5-11psi on 93. Because the 3v has lower compression it's more boost tolerant than the 5.0. And boost is more efficient than compression. So you can push low 700's on a 3v and still run 93 octane.

At about 750-800rwhp the 5.0 blocks start to crack. And sleeved blocks are HUGE money. The stock 3v block is good for at least 1350rwhp (the highest I have seen someone take one, it could be more). So when things get bonkers the 3v has a better foundation.

When it comes to boost it doesn't have as much to do with the motor anymore. It's about what is making that boost. And how much it will make.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqidd View Post
NA the 5.0 is better than the 3v. There is no disputing that. When you start adding boost things get fuzzy.

You can make 625-650rwhp "safely" on the 5.0 bottom end. But those numbers are out of reach while running 93 octane on all but the most extreme combos. 600rwhp is about the limit on pump gas while running 93.

The 3v will chuck the rods out of it at 450-500rwhp. But if you do good rods pistons (which is really not that expensive) you can get more power out of the 3v on 93 than you can the 5.0. The compression ratio is so high on the 5.0 that you're boost limited to about 10.5-11psi on 93. Because the 3v has lower compression it's more boost tolerant than the 5.0. And boost is more efficient than compression. So you can push low 700's on a 3v and still run 93 octane.

At about 750-800rwhp the 5.0 blocks start to crack. And sleeved blocks are HUGE money. The stock 3v block is good for at least 1350rwhp (the highest I have seen someone take one, it could be more). So when things get bonkers the 3v has a better foundation.

When it comes to boost it doesn't have as much to do with the motor anymore. It's about what is making that boost. And how much it will make.






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NA the 5.0 is better than the 3v. There is no disputing that. When you start adding boost things get fuzzy.
Enjoyed the input and the facts re boosting - which I did not know. Thanks. As far as NA 5.0 being better... I started this thread and never defined "better" for a reason; it is really a subjective term. I beat a 5.0 on the quarter mile with my 4.6 3v. Mine, stock tires and wheels, JT CAI, Brenspeed tune, Steeda UDP, Steeda CMDP, Steeda LCAs and Pypes Violators axlebacks. My combined mods come no where close to the additional 100 horses he had. On my side was a better driver and traction.

jbert has beaten some 5.0s on the track in his 4.6 3v. as well.

There is a video online that shows a 4.6 3v, NA, with cams and some other mods beating a Boss in a quarter mile race.

Point is that the differences are not always that huge. Yes, I can mod a 5.0 NA or blown, as I can a 4.6. In the end, the 4.6 is a good platform for the cost as a daily driver and a fun ride and having a 5.0 doesn't ensure you are faster...

Same money spent, which is faster, buying a Mustang with a 5.0 or a 4.6 and modding it? Which is more reliable? There are advantages both ways, but the 4.6 3v can be a great deal right now for what you get.

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Is the 5.0 "better" than the 4.6?

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Enjoyed the input and the facts re boosting - which I did not know. Thanks. As far as NA 5.0 being better... I started this thread and never defined "better" for a reason; it is really a subjective term. I beat a 5.0 on the quarter mile with my 4.6 3v. Mine, stock tires and wheels, JT CAI, Brenspeed tune, Steeda UDP, Steeda CMDP, Steeda LCAs and Pypes Violators axlebacks. My combined mods come no where close to the additional 100 horses he had. On my side was a better driver and traction.



jbert has beaten some 5.0s on the track in his 4.6 3v. as well.



There is a video online that shows a 4.6 3v, NA, with cams and some other mods beating a Boss in a quarter mile race.



Point is that the differences are not always that huge. Yes, I can mod a 5.0 NA or blown, as I can a 4.6. In the end, the 4.6 is a good platform for the cost as a daily driver and a fun ride and having a 5.0 doesn't ensure you are faster...



Same money spent, which is faster, buying a Mustang with a 5.0 or a 4.6 and modding it? Which is more reliable? There are advantages both ways, but the 4.6 3v can be a great deal right now for what you get.

At the track driver skills play a pretty big roll determining who wins the race or not. We've all seen what could be/should be 12 second cars run 14's. If one was to race from hwy type cruising speeds the car with 100 extra horsepower will eat the others lunch.



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My 90 year old grandma could do the 1/4 mile in less than 14 seconds with a 5.0 - just sayin.....
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I went to from an 05 GT to a 14 GT, everything except the exhaust sound is better than the 05. While it's true a driver modded 4.6 can hang/beat with a crappy drivered 5.0, that same good 4.6 driver would really tear it up in a 5.0. That being said, the 4.6 has the 5.0 beat on the price/performance ratio thing definitely.

Here's an example from my experience, with my 4.6(cai,tune,manual) I raced a '10 Camaro SS (auto/stock), and the best it could do was 2-3 car lengths behind him, and that was with perfect runs on my part. This past weekend I raced him again, with his still being stock, and my '14 (auto, tune) whooped him by 3 car lengths two different races. Tires were the 235's and all seasons on both mustangs too. Camaro had 275's summer tires.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candersen View Post
My 90 year old grandma could do the 1/4 mile in less than 14 seconds with a 5.0 - just sayin.....
He he, never mind a 1/4 mile. Can your 90 year old grandma even see further than 1/4 of a yard?
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Quote:
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I beat a 5.0 on the quarter mile with my 4.6 3v. .
There is a lot of room for driver skill. I've beat a 1400hp UGR Lambo with a 800hp S197. The guy was terrified of his car and couldn't drive for sh!t.

I've had everything from stock 3v's to bolt on to 1000hp blown 3v's. I've had stock to bolt on to 750hp Yotes.

A stock Yote vs a stock 3v is no contest at all. It is what it is. And you get the same result bolt on vs bolt on. Only when boost becomes a factor does the 3v show it's strengths. I'm not poo pooing the 3v. I'm actually a huge 3v fan. I'm going to be building a drag strip focused (barely street legal) S197 starting next year and even though it's technically easier for me to go with a Yote, I'm going 3v.
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The 4.6 did its job and did it well since 1996. It was at the end of its development cycle. The 5.0 is a thoroughly modern and high tech power plant with room to grow as the voodoo demonstrates. Heck Ford hasn't even gone Direct Injection yet, The 5.0 compares well with alot of other high tech high power engines such as Audi and BMW V8.

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