[GT-350]

I currently have a 2006 Mustang GT that is used primarily during open track events.

During my last event at Sebring I experienced the dreaded brake fade.

I currently have Agent 47 brake cooling ducts, run Motul RBF 600 brake fluid (the system is flushed prior events), and Hawk HP plus brake pads. Other than that the brake system is stock.

I know bigger brakes won’t stop me in a shorter distance because that is up to the tires: road surface + tires = friction or something like that.

I'm aware brake rotors are heat sinks more surface area equals larger storage (of heat) and allows heat to dissipate more quickly because of more surface area to allow the rotors to cool more quickly so other parts don't heat up and cook the brake fluid…..so is that where the most benefit comes into play for bigger rotors/calipers?

Or bigger tires than stock (274/40-15) do they need the extra force (toque) of larger/more powerful calipers? But does this mean you will need more line pressure (different booster?)? Does the different booster mean a different master cylinder? Different ABS module?

Brake options, these are my options because I would like to keep the system FORD.

1. Mustang Challenge FR500S brake set up;
Front Brake Kit M-2300-J with two piece rotors, the rear calipers are listed as GT500 parts (RH Rear 7R3Z-2552-A and LH Rear 7R3Z-2553-A) I though they were Mustang GT parts. The rear rotors are listed as Mustang GT parts. They also list the GT500 Master Cylinder (6R3Z-2140-AA) and GT 500 Brake Booster (7R3Z-2005-A) along with a different ABS Module (M-2353-A) this is specific to the FR500S?

These 4 piston calipers. Right?

2. Mustang FR500C “Boy Racer” Brake set up;
Front Brake Kit M-2300-A ?two piece rotors?, they list a rotor hat M-1124-R, but not the rotors, is the FR500C Front Brake Caliper Bracket M-2134-R part of the kit? They also list a different Brake Master/Booster Assembly M-2005-R.

Are these 4 or 6 piston calipers?

3. 14” Brake Upgrade Kit 2005-08 Mustang GT M-2300-S from the FORD Racing Catalog “Will upgrade the front brakes to 2007-08 SVT Musang 14” rotors and 4-piston calipers”.

OK if the FR500S uses the SVT Mustang front calipers with the two piece rotors why did the engineers feel they had to use the GT500 Brake Booster and GT500 Master Cylinder? Brake line pressure? Why is this not listed as being either required/recommended for the 14” Brake Upgrade Kit M-2300-S? FORD does use a different Booster/Master Cylinder on the GT500 than what is on the Mustang GT. Can the M-2300-S be upgraded with two piece rotors? I can buy the M-2300-S kit for $1200. The FR500S kit M-2300-J is listed at about $2900-$3100.

Should I install the GT500 Brake Booster/Master Cylinder if I use the M-2300-S?

Anyone know how to speak to a FORD Engineer? I called FORD Racing and they just wanted to push parts.

[sqidd]

Originally Posted by GT-350

I currently have a 2006 Mustang GT that is used primarily during open track events.

During my last event at Sebring I experienced the dreaded brake fade.

I currently have Agent 47 brake cooling ducts, run Motul RBF 600 brake fluid (the system is flushed prior events), and Hawk HP plus brake pads. Other than that the brake system is stock.

I know bigger brakes won’t stop me in a shorter distance because that is up to the tires: road surface + tires = friction or something like that.

I'm aware brake rotors are heat sinks more surface area equals larger storage (of heat) and allows heat to dissipate more quickly because of more surface area to allow the rotors to cool more quickly so other parts don't heat up and cook the brake fluid…..so is that where the most benefit comes into play for bigger rotors/calipers?

Or bigger tires than stock (274/40-15) do they need the extra force (toque) of larger/more powerful calipers? But does this mean you will need more line pressure (different booster?)? Does the different booster mean a different master cylinder? Different ABS module?

Brake options, these are my options because I would like to keep the system FORD.

1. Mustang Challenge FR500S brake set up;
Front Brake Kit M-2300-J with two piece rotors, the rear calipers are listed as GT500 parts (RH Rear 7R3Z-2552-A and LH Rear 7R3Z-2553-A) I though they were Mustang GT parts. The rear rotors are listed as Mustang GT parts. They also list the GT500 Master Cylinder (6R3Z-2140-AA) and GT 500 Brake Booster (7R3Z-2005-A) along with a different ABS Module (M-2353-A) this is specific to the FR500S?

These 4 piston calipers. Right?

2. Mustang FR500C “Boy Racer” Brake set up;
Front Brake Kit M-2300-A ?two piece rotors?, they list a rotor hat M-1124-R, but not the rotors, is the FR500C Front Brake Caliper Bracket M-2134-R part of the kit? They also list a different Brake Master/Booster Assembly M-2005-R.

Are these 4 or 6 piston calipers?

3. 14” Brake Upgrade Kit 2005-08 Mustang GT M-2300-S from the FORD Racing Catalog “Will upgrade the front brakes to 2007-08 SVT Musang 14” rotors and 4-piston calipers”.

OK if the FR500S uses the SVT Mustang front calipers with the two piece rotors why did the engineers feel they had to use the GT500 Brake Booster and GT500 Master Cylinder? Brake line pressure? Why is this not listed as being either required/recommended for the 14” Brake Upgrade Kit M-2300-S? FORD does use a different Booster/Master Cylinder on the GT500 than what is on the Mustang GT. Can the M-2300-S be upgraded with two piece rotors? I can buy the M-2300-S kit for $1200. The FR500S kit M-2300-J is listed at about $2900-$3100.

Should I install the GT500 Brake Booster/Master Cylinder if I use the M-2300-S?

Anyone know how to speak to a FORD Engineer? I called FORD Racing and they just wanted to push parts.

Call Brembo..........

[sleepless]

Did you figure anything out? I'm thinking of going with the ABS module since the stock unit seems to be way too sensitive to me.

[Beagle1]

Why do you want to stay with Ford? The only reason the FR500 cars do is because it's in the rules.

I am a KVR dealer and I am going with a custom set up that I will be offering in the spring. We pieced it together for my use at track events.

AP 6 piston calipers, 2pc KVR rotors, front and rear, plasma coated, good pads and new lines.

I currently have KVR replacement slotted rotors and Hawk pads with Russel lines. It is good for one hard 100mph to 25mph stop and turn then the next corner the pedal is mush. That is with the "blue" racing brake fluid.

I have an FR500c front fascia set up with brake ducts also.

Let's face it, these cars are heavy. And if you go with the GT500 upgrade and can drive, it will not make you happy.

Do yourself a favor and KVR Performance. Even if you buy direct from them, talk to them. Tell them Ron told you to call from Blue Collar. The man knows brakes! He supplies many of the Sebring cars and the BMW factory teams. Have some time though...the guy will take you to school on brakes!

One thing to keep in mind comparing to the FR500 stuff is they take 500# out of the cars.

Also, it isn't the tire/wheel size but the weight that matters in additonal force to whoa up the car. Get 18" wheels under 20# with a good track tire and you will notice a world of difference. Most stock wheels are 25# or more.

The reason they upgrade the master and booster is because of volume and piston surface area. The bigger calipers hold more fluid, as the pads wear during an event the pistons come farther out.

The stock S197 master cylinder would run low on fluid making up the difference. The booster I believe is because the master bolt pattern and travel is different. I'd have to ask around.

Lastly if you go with the GT500 brake upgrade, your wheel choices become very limited. And those calipers are not all they're made out to be. Let's be real, they are OEM on a car. They flex and give a lot under severe use, regardless of the name on them.

If you really want to talk to someone from Ford, I can see if there is anyone willing. Can't make promises. They are still going to sway you to go with their stuff...I know them, and I'm not.

[sleepless]

I don't plan to do any of the other GT500 upgrades, I just want a bit more slip in the tires under braking. The stock ABS kicks in too early. And, if you breath off the brakes when you sense ABS kicking in, it doesn't let up until your're practically off the brakes. It needs to allow for a bit of finesse at the limit. Then you can threshold brake.

My understanding is that the FR500S ABS module gives you that.

[Beagle1]

Originally Posted by sleepless

My understanding is that the FR500S ABS module gives you that.

That maybe true. I am going to check into it though and see if it something I should get in case I grow as a driver.

Seems not everyone has those issues with ABS

My buddy runs a lot of tracks and the Cannonball. He has been at 160 mph at VIR and not had an ABS activation. he is running all Baer stuff.

I don't have any ABS activation either?

[sleepless]

The GT500KR has "recalibrated ABS" which I'm guessing is this same ABS module...

[Beagle1]

Originally Posted by sleepless

The GT500KR has "recalibrated ABS" which I'm guessing is this same ABS module...

Possibly. But you can't order KR parts without a VIN.

And you usually can't order FR500 parts without a racing license, etc. Or know the right guy to sell them to you

I would have to assume that the FR500 ABS module requires a different hydraulic/ABS pump for duty cyle.

Usually Ford won't sell the public "racing" intended parts as they do not meet NTHS or Insurance Institute standards for passenger cars. Or they weren't tested and approved for highway use.

Alot of times parts are in the catalog, but not "for sale". They have to be offered in order to meet racing rules. I know...it's stupid sanctioning body politics.

Find an old Motorsport catalog with the straight 6 billet cylinder head from Blaine Johnson. It was ONLY in there so Steve Ambrose could use it in Comp Eliminator in NHRA. To buy one was $40,000 for just the billet bare head.

Guess I need to drive harder if I am not hitting my ABS. Yet my buddy doesn't and he has data akq. on his car. He hits 1.1g and no ABS. Unless...he's holding out on me

[sleepless]

The FR500S parts are all listed on FRPP site. It uses the GT500 parts as listed by original post:

Front Brake Kit M-2300-J with two piece rotors, the rear calipers are listed as GT500 parts (RH Rear 7R3Z-2552-A and LH Rear 7R3Z-2553-A) I though they were Mustang GT parts. The rear rotors are listed as Mustang GT parts. They also list the GT500 Master Cylinder (6R3Z-2140-AA) and GT 500 Brake Booster (7R3Z-2005-A) along with a different ABS Module (M-2353-A) this is specific to the FR500S?

[Beagle1]

Oh, I know they're there. But my point was they won't always sell you them just because they are listed.

The hard parts are probably not an issue. It's the electronic control they will make you jump through hoops for. I can't find anything out until I get back to work Monday.

The module doesn't come up on any online FRPP ordering sites to buy. The hard parts do show.

And so does the GT500 hydraulic unit. I can get that for $185 without a core exchange.

As for the Master Cylinder and Booster...WOW! They are pretty proud of those parts!