Ha! I did... I went to Bamachips. My Bullitt is absolutely stock under the hood... No problems whatsoever with the stock tune, except slow throttle response. Both the Brenspeed and the Bama tunes helped there, but the Brenspeed lost low-end.
So far, the Bama still feels strong down low. I don't know why, and don't care to diagnose the Brenspeed issue.. Not my job to get it straightened out for them. The tuner would have cost the same from either vendor, so I ended up paying an extra hundred, buying additional tunes. Live and learn. I won't bad mouth Brenspeed, but not likely to get any more tunes there, either.
Gonna take the liberty to expand on that.
Bama permanently disables adaptive learning for "Open Loop" operation(WOT and/or cold engine), and keeps it enabled for "Closed Loop" operation(POT and warm engine) in all of his tunes.
He also permanently disables certain shifting parameters in his auto tunes.
I've been running Brenspeeds 93 tune for 2 1/2 yrs now on my manual. No complaints here. I'm quite happy with the improvement over the stock tune.
I had only run the 87 tune for a few days before switching over to the 93 tune, and in my case the difference was enough for me that I've never gone back.
I never drive mine @ 55 in 5th, 60 in a coast, otherwise usually don't go into 5th until above 65 when accelerating. I wouldn't expect it to pull well in 5th @ 55.
I don't have the adaptive learning as the autos ,so I can't comment on the issues the autos may have.
Just had to comment on my opinion on how Brenspeeds tunes have been excellent in my experience. I had worked with Brent a few years ago tweaking the 'deaccel' in his tunes & their service had been second to none IMO.
I don't have the adaptive learning as the autos ,so I can't comment on the issues the autos may have.
Both manual and automatic transmissions have adaptive learning, I just think they react a bit differently, but I'm not positive on that though.
I did find some pertinent information regarding this issue posted on another site, by Doug of Bamachips:
Quote:
The adaptive learning truly has NOTHING to do with the WOT feel or Open loop operation of the car with a tune, or well most tunes. As described above most good tuners will turn off the ability of the car to apply learned a/f corrections to the WOT tables, now it will do this with the stock file.Still, this isn't the adaptive feature you are looking for.
There are a few values in the automatic that can cause it to learn how to shift softly, there is Torque Management on ALL new Mustang's and even early ones. This should be disabled in EVERY tune made, this isn't a value that can be selected from either Diablo or SCT's user options though. Nor can adaptive learning from the User options. This is something that has to be done in the custom tuning software.
Adaptive learning can be turned off but this will then limit the amount of learning the car can do for different situations. This can be a bad thing if you are going from different altitudes or even different climates. The car must have some sort of learning to be able to adjust for different conditions. Still this shouldn't make a huge power difference in that while in closed loop, or learning mode, it is trying to keep the engine as close to 14.64 as it can. This is where fuel trims come into play, they tell the tale of how much correction the PCM is making to keep the engine as close to 14.64 as it can by using the readings from the front 02 sensors. Normally +/- 5% is well within Ford factory specs. When these get to a point where it cannot adjust anymore then this is where you get the P015X or p017X code telling you the system is lean or rich. In other words the PCM has done as much correcting as possible and it cannot do it anymore. You have an issue is what its trying to say.
So, in short, truly there isn't a parameter that will turn your engines learning ability off completely, truly you dont want that anyway. I think that its something in the new Drive by wire system that is making the adjustment to the total amount of torque that the engine is allowed to make, this is how the DBW system works anyway, by commanding a set amount of torque by the pedal position. Its when the amount of torque is more or less then it should be is when you get the fail safe mode. The way some tuners can adjust these settings and still keep it within factory parameters is where you will gain the most and keep the most driveability. Turning the Torque Management off is a good start but having a tuner that knows whats going on is the best way to get the most from the car.
Quote:
The adaptive learning feature in the PCM learns and corrects fuel trims, this in turn helps to keep milage in check. When you get to a pedal position that is enough to make reasonable power then you should be in Open loop and then the fuel trims, or adaptive learning, is off completely anyway.
Now, this is my THEORY on what you guys are feeling. What you are feeling is the PCM learning throttle tables and adjustments and on the auto's learning transmission pressures and slip times.There again this has nothing to do with what is referred to as Adaptive learning.
The way I combat that is to completely remap the DBW tables, not one but a few different ones, and this in turn gives the PCM a different table to adapt from and learn to and this will keep the throttle crisp and alot better then factory. There are SCT dealers that dont have access to this table and SCT basefiles do some changes but not the ones I speak of. Diablosport make nearly the same changes as SCT base files to the throttle tables.
Now as for the automatic features there is a few ways to combat this as well, basically doing the same thing by adjusting different tables, times, and rates you give the PCM a new base to learn from and hopefully not try to reduce. There are also a few switch positions that need to be changed but without going into great detail I'll leave it at that.
Basically to help get around this you should start with a custom tune from a custom tuning dealer with a good rep and that will provide you with support after the sale should you need it. Not some warehouse dealer that pushes them out the door with free overnight shipping or a new shop that wants to save you $20 by buying from them over a reputable dealer.
Just incase. Before any escalations. Brenspeed has treated me extremely well. I am loyal to them for all future parts/mods.
That settled. I am not trying to degrade anyones name/reputation. I hope to get everyones opinion and incite into my current situation to find a solution.
I will contact Brenspeed today to discuss and update accordingly. Thank you to everyone once again. Keep the thread going if needed!
i have bama tunes and i like it but mine still has the learning thing that i dont like.i have a hand held diablo tunner is there any way i can turn that off are does douge have to do it.
This whole thread has me intrigued. I'm happy with my tunes and to my knowledge I haven't noticed any performance issues after having the tune installed for a few years now. Out of curiosity I'm going to reflash tomorrow just to see if there is any difference. I'm not negating or doubting anyone's situation here but I wonder if just a tiny bit could be a psychosomatic effect. I know my 06GT doesn't feel as fast as when I first drove it because I'm used to it now. The symptoms you guys are describing seem deeper than that so hopefully there is a tweak in the tune that will work. I'll do some baseline sotp tests and the reflash and report back.
Good thread and I'm glad you guys are making a bit of headway here!
I'll also add that I'm happy with my Brenspeed Tunes and currently am enjoying my 91 to it's fullest!
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66 Coupe Tahoe Turq - 200, Pertronix & Flamethrower, 3 Row Rad, Cliff. 6/2 96 GT Vert Laser Red - FMS pulleys, Bullet ProM, BBK CAI, Prof. Prod. Elbow and 70mm TB, MAC Off-Road H, Borla side exhaust, Tokicos, B&M Ripper, 18x10 & 18x9 DD Bulletts 06 GT Tungsten, UIP, Red Leather, Stick, 18" blades, Steeda CAI, SCT XCal 2 w/ MC Racing 91 tune, MACs, BMR SP010 springs, BMR Adj Panhard, CDC ducktail & quarter louvers, Rear louver, painted black stripes
This whole thread has me intrigued. I'm happy with my tunes and to my knowledge I haven't noticed any performance issues after having the tune installed for a few years now. Out of curiosity I'm going to reflash tomorrow just to see if there is any difference. I'm not negating or doubting anyone's situation here but I wonder if just a tiny bit could be a psychosomatic effect....
I think it's not a psychosomatic effect... My car was definitely down on low-end grunt after the Brenspeed tune, which was claimed to give both maximum low-end and top-end power... I was worse than stock on the low end, after long freeway cruises. It was however, great right after being flashed. I know some people have had good luck with their Brenspeed tunes, and have not noticed or experienced what a few of us have. I know that I'm not the only one who has noticed lack of bottom end torque, and it was another Bullitt owner who had the same issues, and recommended the Bamachips tune to me. NewMuscleGT, who's the person that started this thread, has apparently noticed this too, as have a couple others I've been messaging or emailing. What I think is a little odd, is that so many absolutely love their Brenspeed tunes, and report no lack of torque... I feel left out there. Anyway, no big deal, really. The Bama is working well for me.
I have just sent a personal message and email to Brenspeed, describing my tune issue with them.
I'd be happy to flash a revised version of their 91 octane tune, try it again and report on it, if they send do me one.
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'08 Bullitt -Highland Green
'09 GT-500KR -Black/Black
I think it's not a psychosomatic effect... My car was definitely down on low-end grunt after the Brenspeed tune, which was claimed to give both maximum low-end and top-end power... I was worse than stock on the low end, after long freeway cruises. It was however, great right after being flashed. I know some people have had good luck with their Brenspeed tunes, and have not noticed or experienced what a few of us have. I know that I'm not the only one who has noticed lack of bottom end torque, and it was another Bullitt owner who had the same issues, and recommended the Bamachips tune to me. NewMuscleGT, who's the person that started this thread, has apparently noticed this too, as have a couple others I've been messaging or emailing. What I think is a little odd, is that so many absolutely love their Brenspeed tunes, and report no lack of torque... I feel left out there. Anyway, no big deal, really. The Bama is working well for me.
I have just sent a personal message and email to Brenspeed, describing my tune issue with them.
I'd be happy to flash a revised version of their 91 octane tune, try it again and report on it, if they send do me one.
Just an FYI... I reflashed my computer and I can't tell a difference.
I hope you guys get this figured out so the issue can be resolved.
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66 Coupe Tahoe Turq - 200, Pertronix & Flamethrower, 3 Row Rad, Cliff. 6/2 96 GT Vert Laser Red - FMS pulleys, Bullet ProM, BBK CAI, Prof. Prod. Elbow and 70mm TB, MAC Off-Road H, Borla side exhaust, Tokicos, B&M Ripper, 18x10 & 18x9 DD Bulletts 06 GT Tungsten, UIP, Red Leather, Stick, 18" blades, Steeda CAI, SCT XCal 2 w/ MC Racing 91 tune, MACs, BMR SP010 springs, BMR Adj Panhard, CDC ducktail & quarter louvers, Rear louver, painted black stripes
