I had a FRPP CAI,Dyno tune,UDP,BBK shorties,FRPP 410's,Dyno Tech drive shaft. and made 305 on a Dyno Jet and then installed the Hot Rod cams and got like 5 more hp. I called Ford Racing because I thought I should have gotten more hp. They said to check the timing. I think they suggested retarding the timing and I might be off on the rpm range so call them and double check but its like 7 deg to like 1500 rpm,them 12deg to 3000 rpm,then 15 deg to 4500 rpm the 20 deg to red line. It then made 335 to the wheels.My tuner retarded to 15 deg prior to all this and thats why I didn't make the power. But after all this was completed its awesome. So just call Ford Racing and they will give you the exact numbers to set the timing at and I bet you thats your problem. Its in the tune. You differentially need a 373 or 410 gear with cams. I did not lose any low end torque or felt any but I did have to feather the clutch when I had 355's. And to all those who say you don't get any power gains from the Hot Rod cams your wrong.I even put shorties on and I got like 5 hp but the low end torque improved a lot. I also have two friends who have the exact same bolt ons as me but they have long tubes and yes they got @5 to 8 more hp I got them on torque,so just keep that in mind. Good luck and I hope this helps you out.
+1000 As I've said before...Some tuners just don't know how to tune for them. Take it somewhere else with a tuner that knows what they are doing. Just because Tillman or some other tuner comes on here and tells you they don't make power, don't take it for gold. I've had their tune and was not impressed which is why I got it dyno tuned with much better results.
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It's better to burn out than to fade away - The Kurgan
+1000 As I've said before...Some tuners just don't know how to tune for them. Take it somewhere else with a tuner that knows what they are doing. Just because Tillman or some other tuner comes on here and tells you they don't make power, don't take it for gold. I've had their tune and was not impressed which is why I got it dyno tuned with much better results.
I also question some of the shops installing the cams. Just stabbing them in there without taking the time to degree them correctly can leave you with one seriously screwed up motor. Back in the day when you had one cam you could fire it in and not have to degree it. You may be +/- a couple degrees but that will just effect where the torque curve is and how it makes power, not how much. When you have two cams (or four) and they are not set up exactly the same you end up with one bank of cylinders running different than the others which is obviously not ideal. And it only takes 1-2 deg out of balance to create problems. Some shops probably degree them, some shops probably just stab them in. The ones that just stab them in can get lucky and have the cam timing real close and will see good gains. But if they stab them in there and they are off from each other they could net a zero gain or even loose power. Degreeing cams is a big deal. When I build Ducati 4v motors (4 cams) I always degree the cams. It’s a must. I have taken 999R’s out of the crate, installed exhaust, set up the fueling ad the take them to the track to break them in. Once its broken in and if the customer wants to pay I will degree the cams. I usually get between 6 and 8hp all the way through the rev range and that is on a 145rwhp motor. That’s an awful big gain for just timing the cams correctly.
If I were doing cams in my car I wouldn’t even consider not degreeing them.
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I get asked why I carry a gun. I tell them its because stabbing people is gross.
I also question some of the shops installing the cams. Just stabbing them in there without taking the time to degree them correctly can leave you with one seriously screwed up motor. Back in the day when you had one cam you could fire it in and not have to degree it. You may be +/- a couple degrees but that will just effect where the torque curve is and how it makes power, not how much. When you have two cams (or four) and they are not set up exactly the same you end up with one bank of cylinders running different than the others which is obviously not ideal. And it only takes 1-2 deg out of balance to create problems. Some shops probably degree them, some shops probably just stab them in. The ones that just stab them in can get lucky and have the cam timing real close and will see good gains. But if they stab them in there and they are off from each other they could net a zero gain or even loose power. Degreeing cams is a big deal. When I build Ducati 4v motors (4 cams) I always degree the cams. It’s a must. I have taken 999R’s out of the crate, installed exhaust, set up the fueling ad the take them to the track to break them in. Once its broken in and if the customer wants to pay I will degree the cams. I usually get between 6 and 8hp all the way through the rev range and that is on a 145rwhp motor. That’s an awful big gain for just timing the cams correctly.
If I were doing cams in my car I wouldn’t even consider not degreeing them.
Do the Ducati motors have VCT?
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93 Cobra Supercharged 342 Vortech T-trim...all sorts of stuff, by Thrill Ride Unlimited Mt. Vernon Oh.
I got HotRod cams installed and made 302 hp /299 tq at the wheels on Mustang Dyno, those numbers are ALWAYS lower than Dyno jet number. The only other Mods i have are CAI /Delete plates and OEM cats, 3.31's. My tuner recomended Hi-Flow cats or O/R pipe, i recently put in high flow cats and the but dyno feels like it gained a few horses but nothing major, definately breathing better on the exhuast end and sounds much cleaner and less restricted.
Overall im happy with the gains, the car feels like a different animal. I def feel a gud increase in power but the biggest change about them was the shift in power band, i am now making peak TQ at 3.5k and peak HP at 6.4k. pre Cams all the power was from 3k - 5k.
If your numbers are Dyno jet number than it may be low, your engine may have been putting out lower numbers than avg to begin with. Do you feel gains in power? are you happy with them? I know you love the sound. If you were really looking for power, you prolly would not have went with the HotRods in the first place, if it were all about the #'s then you would have gone with comp's NSR or a VSR cam, so you can't expect a 40rwhp gain. If you feel like theres more to be gained than you may want to try another tuner, generally they are only a few HP away from each other unless your current tuner is doing something wrong.
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2007 GT Convertible Premium 5 spd || FRPP HotRod Cams || Full Steeda Suspension w D-Specs || Brembo GT500 || Steeda CAI & Delete plates|| Flowmaster || Magnaflow catted X Pipe || MGW Shifter || Tuned by RealSpeed ||
I got HotRod cams installed and made 302 hp /299 tq at the wheels on Mustang Dyno, those numbers are ALWAYS lower than Dyno jet number. The only other Mods i have are CAI /Delete plates and OEM cats, 3.31's. My tuner recomended Hi-Flow cats or O/R pipe, i recently put in high flow cats and the but dyno feels like it gained a few horses but nothing major, definately breathing better on the exhuast end and sounds much cleaner and less restricted.
Overall im happy with the gains, the car feels like a different animal. I def feel a gud increase in power but the biggest change about them was the shift in power band, i am now making peak TQ at 3.5k and peak HP at 6.4k. pre Cams all the power was from 3k - 5k.
If your numbers are Dyno jet number than it may be low, your engine may have been putting out lower numbers than avg to begin with. Do you feel gains in power? are you happy with them? I know you love the sound. If you were really looking for power, you prolly would not have went with the HotRods in the first place, if it were all about the #'s then you would have gone with comp's NSR or a VSR cam, so you can't expect a 40rwhp gain. If you feel like theres more to be gained than you may want to try another tuner, generally they are only a few HP away from each other unless your current tuner is doing something wrong.
As long as YOUR happy with how YOUR car performs, that's all that counts. Congrats.
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07 REDFIRE GT 5 SPEED 3.55 gears
C&L Racer CAI XCAL2/Seq signals/GTAs/Steeda UDP/CHE K Member Brace W/Torq Links/J&M LCA/Spider DS/PRO.50 Shifter Hurst handle & "T"/Meziere EO2/ARH LT catted H /Prothane MM/Delet Plates/SLP BOSS 429 Scoop/Accel COP/PowerSlot/Hawk Pads/Tokico D-Spec/CHE Panhard Bar Brace/Steeda Adj. Panhard Bar/BMR F/R Sway Bars/Cervini ducktail spoiler/BMR UCA Mount/CHE UCA/GT\CS Rear Cover/AMChrome Bullets 18x9/10s/Nitto 255/45&295/45
Tillman Dyno Tune 307HP/322TQ
Eventually we will realize that these aren't the numbers that we should be using to impress our friends. They are nice to have, but there are much more important numbers to chase after.....
FWIW, it's been stated numerous times that the Hot Rod cams are mostly for the sound. I personally think they sound like Hot Garbage, but that's just me.
No but they are desmodromic that makes it a huge PITA.
And timing cams with VCT is no different than a cam without. The cam timing doesn't change while it is not runing. In fact the cam(s) will be at their "starting" point. As long as the cam(s) are all at the same point (all the way advanced, all the way retarded, right in the middle of the VCT range, etc) its just like setting the cam timing on any other motor.
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I get asked why I carry a gun. I tell them its because stabbing people is gross.
I'll jump in again on this. I also called Ford Racing and was told that their advertised HP numbers are with LT headers, or LT's and CNC heads. I had basically the same results. I had the car on a dyno with just a JLT CAI and their 93 tune, and FRPP axle backs and got some gains. I added UDP, and Hot Rod cams. The car sounded good but driveability suffered. I also have 4:10"s. I took it to Brenspeed and they installed CMP deletes and their 93 tune. Only a few HP peak gain and peak torque was back to where it was stock, but I think the combination of the CMP deletes and their tune made the car drive better, didn't loose the sound, and the throttle responce is much better. Maybe down the road I will do the LT's and high flow cats, but I have to be careful because I am subject to emmissions testing, so I can't do an off road exhaust or turn off the rear 02's. My stock baseline was 272 HP, I am also about 290 now.
I expected more like everyone else that has weighed in on here, but for now it is what it is. It runs great and sounds great and that will have to do till I decide what I want to do from here. Also for what it's worth, I installed my own cams and with that tool to lock the timing chains in place they never comes off the bottom gear or cam gear. You just slide the cam gear off the old cam and slide it back on the new cam and there is only one way it will go on. If the gear never leaves the chain the timing shouldn't be off.
We've seen no significant gain using VCT (as mentioned above) specified by Ford in order to pull power out of the hot rod cams. However, Comp 3v cams respond quite well. That's what we sell and install because of this. Not knocking Ford Racing, just wouldn't sell that cam because of results from ourselves and other reputable shops.
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Tillman Speed Inc.
Custom Tuning | In-House Dynojet 224xLC
3344 Market Street • Suite C • Aston, PA 19014 Sales: (610)497-5776 or 497-3736 Out-of-State Sales: (610)497-3711 Service / Dyno: (610)497-9683 PREMIER DEALER:Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger Systems - Kooks Custom Headers - Magnaflow Exhaust Systems - MORE!
Wish I had done more research before I bought. Had a friend that installed the Hot Rod cams but already had LT's and I was impressed with his sound and performance, as it turns out the LT's must be the key with those cams. If I had it to do over I would do the comp cams.
I think people get too hung up on the numbers, i was expecting not to get HUGE gains from the FRPP cams as opposed to the COMP alternatives so im not dissapointed, in fact, i got exactly the gains i was expecting. When i do get long tubes and or do some head porting the cams will make exponentially more power and then maybe i can hit the FRPP advertised 30 - 40 RWHP.
Like i said, im happy with them, theres defintately more power and it sounds like sex, what more could you want?
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2007 GT Convertible Premium 5 spd || FRPP HotRod Cams || Full Steeda Suspension w D-Specs || Brembo GT500 || Steeda CAI & Delete plates|| Flowmaster || Magnaflow catted X Pipe || MGW Shifter || Tuned by RealSpeed ||
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