AFM Web

Go Back   Ford Mustang Forums > Mustang Forums > 2005 + Mustang > 2005+ Mustang GT Tech
Welcome to AllFordMustangs.com. We look forward to you registering on our forum and making your first post.
 
Introductions | Lounge | 2005+ GT Tech | 2005+ V6 Tech | 2005+ Talk | Mustang Tech | Racing | Regional 
 

Reply
 
Old 06-18-2009   #1 (permalink)
copper top is offline Rookie


Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 37 Threads: 4
 copper top's Country Flag
belle chasse   Louisiana
Default Multiple problems starting from a Vortech supercharger install

My car had never experienced a problem until I had a Vortech dealer install a super charger. Once i got it out of the shop I started to hear detonation, so I took it to Dynospeed where they found the air filter on to high, wrong plugs and a horrible tune. Car runs fine for a while but while racing i blew a fuel line off the fuel pump twice, same line but opposite ends. Car starts to idle rough so I decide to try and find the idle sensor and clean it but i took off the throttle positioning sensor and striped the heads off. I had to take it to a machine shop. I start to notice that the car RPM's would hang between shift and the car would not coast down when I let off the gas. Then the car would fall on it's face until it warmed up, so i finely took it to Stang Hi where we found 35lb injectors instead of the 39's, replaced the stock fuel pump with a GT500, and a retune. car runs like a dream again until I take it to the track and it falls on it face running 13 sec 1/4 miles. The car dyno'd 487 RWHP and 425 ft lbs. May be it's the stock clutch, so I put in a spec 2 in with a new steel fly wheel. Car seems to drive fine but I couldn't get on it until 500 miles. take it to the track with 520 miles on the new clutch only to hit the rev limiter in third gear only going 70 mph. I took it out of gear put it back in and still would go to the rev limiter with no increase in speed. I let the car cool done with some ice on the intake, try one more pass and it stuck but still weak time. That brings me to today, where the car seems to have no power and when I hit the gas my boost would only go to 5 lb's and the car felt like it had no life. The rpm's would climb but no kick, and the exhaust sounded different. I’m at a loss with this car and I'm thinking of cutting my losses, unless I can get the problem solved. could it be my throttle body, air in the clutch, was a spec 2 the wrong clutch, is there a better one, maybe an intake leak, MAF, and if so how does one trouble shoot to verify. Any help would be nice.
Car mods include, vortech s-3 with after cooler, 373 gears, shorty headers with off road x-pipe (pypes brand).
also if my car had a dead cylinder, would an engin light come on or at least a code?
copper top is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #2 (permalink)
bigwilly43729 is offline Senior Member

S197 Member


Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,272 Threads: 147
 bigwilly43729's Country Flag  View bigwilly43729's 19 photos
San Diego   California
Default

Your tune seems jacked up. Call/email Brenspeed or another reputable tuner to try and get this worked out. Sounds like people are taking you on a ride for p/l too.

Datalog (you do have a handheld tuner, correct?) to find out what exactly is going on and give that to the tuner as well. Too much info never hurt anyone.
__________________
2005 Sonic Blue GT
bigwilly43729 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #3 (permalink)
carter_glasgow is offline Made Member

5.0L Member


Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 263 Threads: 28
 carter_glasgow's Country Flag  View carter_glasgow's 1 photo
Sidney   Ohio
Default

The part about reving high and only going 70 kinda sounded like a clutch slipping. How fast does it normally go in 3rd? Maybe it is supposed to go 70.
__________________
Tremec TKO 500, Spec Stage 1 Clutch & Pressure Plate, Ford clutch cable with MM firewall adj. & quadrant, MSD Cap/Rotor & Wires, Autolite 25's, Aeromotive adjustable fuel pressure reg., SLP Loud Mouth 1 cat back, BBK CAI
FRPP C springs, Bilstein shocks and struts, M&M Caster Camber plates, Urethane rack & sway bar bushings, spring isolators.
M&M Stainless Steel braided brake hose, Hawk HPS pads, freshly turned rotors
carter_glasgow is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #4 (permalink)
sqidd is offline Senior Member

S197 Member


Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,443 Threads: 74
 sqidd's Country Flag  View sqidd's 116 photos  View sqidd's HomePage
South Eastern   Michigan
Default

First things first get a fuel pres. Gage on there even if it’s just o the fuel rail. Those are only a few bucks. It would be nice to see what the pres. Is doing while under load though so a I car gage would be ideal. The gage will allow you to eliminate or confirm the fuel system which is a big chunk of potential problems.

Second you need to do something about the TB. Those things are so fragile and need to be so precise because of the fly by wire it’s ridiculous. If you have gear issues or problems with a TPS reading, interface, etc. it will screw the whole deal up.
__________________
Under Construction. Better, Stronger, Faster than it was before.
sqidd is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #5 (permalink)
KlrStng is offline Made Member

4.6L Member
S197 Member


Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 439 Threads: 24
 KlrStng's Country Flag
Billings   Montana
Default

Unless you have incredibly short gears (ie 4.50+), you should be hitting the rev limiter at a way higher speed. If you are revving and rpm is going up but speed isn't, it is definately a clutch issue. That clutch should be more than enough to handle the power (KB tested the factory clutch to 499 ft lbs before failure). With 3.73's I hit about 100 at the rev limit. (edit, re-read your post, with 3.73's you definately have a problem)

If you are not making boost and it is running poorly, there is other issues as well. You say you were blowing the fuel lines apart with the factory pump? something doesn't make sense there. And what injectors are you running now? the 35s or the 39s?

Finally, heat soak can take your power to the tune of about 30 degrees warmer intake air equating to about 1 psi of boost. That is if the tune doesn't start pulling timing, which will further reduce your power. If your tune is set for an agressive AF and timing (around 11.8 AF ratio and 10 psi boost with 25 degrees advance), you better have 93 octane gas or you will ping and the engine will pull timing.

Are you racing at the same temp and elevation that the dyno was done? about 1400 feet of elevation is the equivalent of 1 psi boost, so if you are up a few thousand feet you lose another 30 or more horsepower. If you dyno at 60 degrees ambient temp with a cool engine and cool intercooler, at 10% humidity, at sea level, then go to 3000 feet, 60% humidity, and 80 degree ambient, you can expect at least a 45-60 hp loss, and that is if you don't ping and pull timing, which can cost you up to another 50 hp.

Edit - If you are getting around 6k rpm and only making 5 psi, either the belt is slipping or you have a bad vacuum or intake leak. Heat soak and pulled timing can account for power loss, but boost loss is mechanical.
__________________
____________________
2006 GT Premium Vert, 5 spd, Tungsten Grey
Show: Painted gloss black stripes, Street Scene Gen 1 body kit, side and hood scoops, CDC light bar, sequential tails, purple underglow, 8" shorty antenna, redline hood struts, Steeda Ultralights, 20" Chrome Killers, S.O.S. pillar & 3 gauges.
Go: J&M LCA's & Adj. UCA, J&M Adj. Panhard, CHE LCA reloc brackets & torque limiters, 3.73 gears, Kenne Bell Stage 1 2.6l supercharger.
...440rwhp/401rwtq
KlrStng is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #6 (permalink)
copper top is offline Rookie


Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 37 Threads: 4
 copper top's Country Flag
belle chasse   Louisiana
Default

I have 39 lb injectors now, it was one of the things I changed out when I replaced the factory fuel pump. I am running 93 octane. I do think it may be the TB because most of the problems happened after i took it to a machine shop to get the studs out after i twisted the heads off trying to get the throttle positioning sensor off. and i forgot to mention, when i was installing the after cooler I noticed that the shop forgot to reposition an idler pulley since i went with the 3.60 pulley right away. I never heard any belt squeal when i hit the gas so i left it alone. could the belt slip with out hearing it? Repositioning the pulley and getting a new TB sounds like it may fix most of it, but the clutch slip, I was told that when the clutch gets hot they have a tendency to slip, of if the clutch was not bleed correctly. when the clutch was put in they also replaced the sleeve cylinder with the upgraded one. The shop also told me some thing about the plunger? not sure what he was talking about. what is the best clutch out there if i find out this one is toast? I usualy shift between 100 and 104mph from 3rd to 4th, just to clear that up.

Thanks for all the advice.
copper top is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #7 (permalink)
stlwagon is online now Site Administrator

S197 Member


Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 64,299 Threads: 677
 stlwagon's Country Flag  View stlwagon's 53 photos  View stlwagon's 4 classified ads
Southern   Maryland
Send a message via Yahoo to stlwagon
Default

Why on earth did you remove the TPS? You don't clean those I'd look closely for a failed coil.
__________________
AFM Site Administrator
2005 Mustang GT
stlwagon is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #8 (permalink)
copper top is offline Rookie


Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 37 Threads: 4
 copper top's Country Flag
belle chasse   Louisiana
Default

I received some bad advice about the TPS. if I had a bad coil wouldn't I get a light?
copper top is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #9 (permalink)
stlwagon is online now Site Administrator

S197 Member


Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 64,299 Threads: 677
 stlwagon's Country Flag  View stlwagon's 53 photos  View stlwagon's 4 classified ads
Southern   Maryland
Send a message via Yahoo to stlwagon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by copper top View Post
I received some bad advice about the TPS. if I had a bad coil wouldn't I get a light?
Almost never will you see a light. It's very frustrating. I've been chasing a bad coil for several weeks.
__________________
AFM Site Administrator
2005 Mustang GT
stlwagon is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #10 (permalink)
copper top is offline Rookie


Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 37 Threads: 4
 copper top's Country Flag
belle chasse   Louisiana
Default

then the obvious question would be, how can one tell if it's a bad coil thats the problem, and wouldn't it be easier to change them all?
copper top is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #11 (permalink)
stlwagon is online now Site Administrator

S197 Member


Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 64,299 Threads: 677
 stlwagon's Country Flag  View stlwagon's 53 photos  View stlwagon's 4 classified ads
Southern   Maryland
Send a message via Yahoo to stlwagon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by copper top View Post
then the obvious question would be, how can one tell if it's a bad coil thats the problem, and wouldn't it be easier to change them all?
Unless you can narrow it down with a voltage test, replacing them all is the easiest. Not suggesting that you should do that until you have ruled out everything else. Did you check your TPS voltage?
__________________
AFM Site Administrator
2005 Mustang GT
stlwagon is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #12 (permalink)
2005 white s197 is offline Made Member


Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 551 Threads: 46
 2005 white s197's Country Flag
Clearwater   Florida
Default

Your first step should have been to call Vortech. Is this a new unit ? If your Mustang ran fine until the Vortech install, for gods sakes "start there" !! Rule out everything but the Supercharger. What support is the shop giving you that did the install ? Did you question the shop about the 35lbs. injectors ? Vortech supplies 39lbs injectors, is it possible the shop took the 39's and installed the 35's. I would be asking !! Your issues are Mech. (read installer) and Tune related problems. Vortech can help with the tune issues and the installer can go back and check EVERYTHING he/she did. Stop guessing .......start with the Vortech stuff.
2005 white s197 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #13 (permalink)
copper top is offline Rookie


Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 37 Threads: 4
 copper top's Country Flag
belle chasse   Louisiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlwagon View Post
Unless you can narrow it down with a voltage test, replacing them all is the easiest. Not suggesting that you should do that until you have ruled out everything else. Did you check your TPS voltage?
Don't have a volt meter, but I do have access to a TB off my girlfriends 08 GT. If it solves the studdering problem then I guess I know it's the TB.
copper top is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #14 (permalink)
stlwagon is online now Site Administrator

S197 Member


Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 64,299 Threads: 677
 stlwagon's Country Flag  View stlwagon's 53 photos  View stlwagon's 4 classified ads
Southern   Maryland
Send a message via Yahoo to stlwagon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by copper top View Post
Don't have a volt meter, but I do have access to a TB off my girlfriends 08 GT. If it solves the studdering problem then I guess I know it's the TB.
It's worth a shot... Don't mess with the TPS on that one.
__________________
AFM Site Administrator
2005 Mustang GT
stlwagon is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009   #15 (permalink)
copper top is offline Rookie


Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 37 Threads: 4
 copper top's Country Flag
belle chasse   Louisiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2005 white s197 View Post
Your first step should have been to call Vortech. Is this a new unit ? If your Mustang ran fine until the Vortech install, for gods sakes "start there" !! Rule out everything but the Supercharger. What support is the shop giving you that did the install ? Did you question the shop about the 35lbs. injectors ? Vortech supplies 39lbs injectors, is it possible the shop took the 39's and installed the 35's. I would be asking !! Your issues are Mech. (read installer) and Tune related problems. Vortech can help with the tune issues and the installer can go back and check EVERYTHING he/she did. Stop guessing .......start with the Vortech stuff.

I figured if the shop that did the vortech install screwed up that bad i wasn't going to give them another chance to screw it up even more. basic stuff, like putting in cooler plugs, proper clamps on the walbro fuel pump, installing the air filter correctly, putting the correct injectors in. The shop claims that they were the old style 39 lb injectors but they were fat and rubbing against the air intake, and when i looked at them they had three jet instead of the 4 jets that the 39lb injectors that replaced them. they also missed the part in the instructions that shows how to install the idler pulley if the blower has the 3.60 pully and they missed that. I am going to reposition it to the right spot tonight and see if that fixes the boost problem. I have corrected most every thing the first shop screwed up, cooler plugs, GT500 fuel pump, 39lb injectors, steeda tensioner, and tonight i will reposition the idler pulley. The only problem that has not been able to be trouble shot is the surging problem at low speeds. The only vortec authorized dealer around the New Orleans area was the one that put the blower on. the other two shops that have helped me work on my car that i recomend is dynospeed in memphis TN, and Stang Hi in Baton Rouge LA. both have a high reputation.
copper top is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools


sponsors

Mustang Photos
Add to Favorites    Link to us    Contact    Directory    Site Rules    Archive    Terms of Use    Privacy    Top Sites    RSS    Meet Our Sponsors    Advertise   
AllFordMustangs is not affiliated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company. ©Copyright 2002-2010 All Auto Enthusiasts Network

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110