As the title says, I would like to hear what people have to say about what are the realistic limits of various hard parts. Not, "so and so once dynoed XXX for 3 whole pulls before his bottom end windowed".
By this I mean the following parts mainly:
Transmission
Bottom End Rotating Assy.
Engine Block
Clutch
Rear End
If anyone can share some decent info on each or one of these that would be awesome!
Talk to Chevy Killer, he is good at finding the limits of parts.
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05 - Zeon body kit, Saleen S/C, 3.6" pully, 90mm MAF, L/T Heders, Catted X-Pipe, Saleen Race Craft suspension, Axel brace, Pan hard bar. More to come this spring from my friends at PMP and Larry H.
65 - Street force coil over front suspension, Wilwood disk breaks at all 4 wheels, More construction in progress! More to come this spring from Simons Auto & Restoration!
I had my supercharger on the dyno for 7 pulls and I don't think it is to normal temp. yet! That is at 430RWHP. Alot of it depends on how you drive. If you set your rev limiter to 7K - expect to be making plenty of changes in a week. If you keep the factory rev limiter and build things strong as you go, you can probably expect the clutch to go (depending on how much HP you put to it) - but the rest of the bottom end to hold. I was talking to Justin at JPC (they kick ass by the way) and I posed the same question to him. He informed me that they have about 10 street cars with over 500RWHP (ProCharger) and they have not had any problems for over a year.
In short, if you build your car right and get it TUNED by a respected shop - you should be in good shape....
generally its believed that 450 - 475 RWHP is the top end power that the Rods can stand. the pistons have more of an issue with the tune and running lean but would not expect much more than the rods....
The engine block from what I read can take 700-800 hp
the rear is pretty solid... mabye 600ish ....the manuel trany as well.
the clutch - DK
generally its believed that 450 - 475 RWHP is the top end power that the Rods can stand. the pistons have more of an issue with the tune and running lean but would not expect much more than the rods....
The engine block from what I read can take 700-800 hp
the rear is pretty solid... mabye 600ish ....the manuel trany as well.
the clutch - DK
all from memory....so I maybe off on some #'s
OK, I don't count piston weakness from a bad tune.. that's a setup issue of course.
So from this, then:
rotating assy: 500 whp
block: 750 whp
rear end: 600 whp
trans: 600 whp
I would assume those numbers for the trans and rear end are for drag style cars? I know road race cars that rarely use WOT in first and sometimes even second would experience much higher reliability levels.
What precisely do peeps do who make above 600 whp and lose a tranny? Do a T56 conversion? I don't want to consider auto options (road racer).
Proper tuning is crucial to a long engine life.
There are some people who can break a car stock while others can run a car for years without breaking anything.
The manual transmission is rated at 360 lb-ft. of torque.
I have not yet heard of anyone breaking an input shaft.
The auto trans has run a whole season going 10's in the windveil blue JDM car without a hitch.
There are many still running over 500 rwhp on the stock rear ends.
This is not written in stone however since there are people breaking rear ends and twisting driveshafts and burning clutches while stock.
Because someone else hasn't broken it doesn't mean that you won't.
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05 White GT Premium 5 Sp. IUP, Active Alarm
BMR, C&L, Centerforce, Fidanza, FRPP, GI Joe, JBA, JDM Engineering, LPW, Saleen, SCT, Steeda, SOS
Because someone else hasn't broken it doesn't mean that you won't.
+1
If you want to play, be prepared to pay.
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2005 Sonic Blue, a.k.a. "BAD 05 GT", Auto Trans (and damn proud of it!) Best 1/8 mi: 6.691 @ 103.04, DA= 1,166' (2-19-09) Best 1/4 mi: 10.37 @ 132.98 (3-14-08)
Kenne Bell 2.8L SC, Boss 5.0 Block w/Cobra crank, Diamond Pistons, Scat Rods, Livernois P&P Heads - Check out my Homepage for Full Mod List and Videos
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwilly43729
HP numbers are good and all, but they are like asking someone how much they can bench. What difference does it make if I can still kick your a$$?
Talk to Chevy Killer, he is good at finding the limits of parts.
...har har
Those in the 'know' will tell you that the stock rods are a crapshoot at anything over 450 rwhp. Are there some holding at 530 - YES. Will yours - who knows.
It is a fact that these motors are NOT created equal. Some rods let go at 450 and some let go at 550 but rest assured they will let go at some point when you push the 500 rwhp mark. They are literally the size of a toothbrush and a joke.
I feel a good tune and build can net you 450'ish very safely on all parts described but the tune and how hard you beat on it are the key.
David brought up a great point. How 'hard' you beat on the car makes all the difference in the world too. I blew out the stock differential 3 times with 426 rwhp and recently blew out a tru trak and my ring & pinion with a bit more but from hard launching.
Stock clutch - forget about it lasting with anything over 400 IMO.
No way the stock diff and ring & pinion is going to last with 600 rwhp. The 8.8 can handle 1200 hp if set-up properly but you are defintely going to need to beef it up.
Maybe a better question to ask instead of what HP does crap break is....
"I want to make 'XXX' amount of power and be able to run 'XXXX' - at this level - what parts should be upgraded?"
I honestly think that is a better way to approach what you're trying to find out.
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05 Sonic Blue Roush GT
Daily Driver KB Blown 298 built SB with Livernois heads, 4 speed AOD - 6.68@105....10.52@129 - Built by ST Motorsports
Maybe a better question to ask instead of what HP does crap break is....
"I want to make 'XXX' amount of power and be able to run 'XXXX' - at this level - what parts should be upgraded?"
I honestly think that is a better way to approach what you're trying to find out.
That's a good point.
And there are other variables to consider when deciding when/if something will break. For example, let's say two cars have the same engines mods and put out basically the same peak power at the crank - 500hp. One car is a manual trans on slicks dumping the clutch at 5000rpm. The other is an automatic on slicks with a 3000 stall converter. Whose rear end is most vulnerable?
How about another example. Two cars both making ~450rwhp, on the stock bottom end using pump gas. One is doing it at 10 psi with low timing, and the other at 8psi with more timing. Which one is more likely to break?
My point is that trying to estimate the breaking point of various parts based solely on a peak rwhp rating is an exercise in futility, IMO. Most of the engines I know of that went, were not anywhere near the peak rpm point when it happened. There are plenty of other factors that need to be considered.
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2005 Sonic Blue, a.k.a. "BAD 05 GT", Auto Trans (and damn proud of it!) Best 1/8 mi: 6.691 @ 103.04, DA= 1,166' (2-19-09) Best 1/4 mi: 10.37 @ 132.98 (3-14-08)
Kenne Bell 2.8L SC, Boss 5.0 Block w/Cobra crank, Diamond Pistons, Scat Rods, Livernois P&P Heads - Check out my Homepage for Full Mod List and Videos
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwilly43729
HP numbers are good and all, but they are like asking someone how much they can bench. What difference does it make if I can still kick your a$$?
my stock spark plugs burned out with 100 hp shot http://www.salinasracing.com/xmo/sparkplug/sparkpl4.JPG and my HTO are getting black too but i have been running real rich and doug over at bamachips took care of that for me.
How much power til differnet hard parts break? 
...har har
