Well, here is my two cents on the matter. I like the propsective new Challenger for what it is...a retro American Muscle car. I am not a particular fan of Dodge, but it is nice for what it is. Anyways, I am glad to see the return of the muslce cars. Each seems to offer something the others dont, hence good old fashion American competition. For examle, yes the Mustang is hot and others are playing catch up, but the GTO and SSR came out first. Do not get me wrong, I love the Mustang, but I will give credit where credit is due. I think Chevy had the right idea with the SSR with it being very retro and yet still heavy modern traits; however,it very is heavy and very pricy. The GTO simply is a great performance car, but wrapped in a plain wrapper. The Charger came back, but now has 4 doors. Now the Challenger is coming our way..again, very retro and quite possibly very good performnance, but a littel to much of a carbon copy of the original. Well, as much as I love my Stang, it did fall short in power. The GTO was introduced with 350 HP and bumped up to 400 HP. The Charger has 340 HP andhas an option (SRT-8) to 410 HP. Even the sluggish SSR came out with 300 HP and has been bumped up to 390 HP. The Challenger is looking to come out with 350+ HP, so Mustang's little 300 HP (450 HP in VERY LIMITED COBRA) is the Mustang's downside.
In short each of the retro rides offers something unique to their customers, hence the competiton factor. They all have their pros and cons. The Mustang pros are without a doubt the "gotta have it" looks, the bang for the buck and available today. While its cons are lower power. The GTO has the power, performance and comfort, but lacks the looks (and to some degree the options the Mustang offers). The SSR has the looks and now the power, but is off the charts in price. The Charger has the power, the price and creature comforts, but is so far removed from the original with having 4 doors. Now the Challenger has the retro looks and power, but too retro and not available today. Even the Prowler, though having cool looks, was simply priced out of the market for us regular guys. While the T-Bird was very retro, but it just did not catch on. So take your pros and cons and choose the ride for you. Just enjoy whatever retro ride you choose.
Well, here is my two cents on the matter. I like the propsective new Challenger for what it is...a retro American Muscle car. I am not a particular fan of Dodge, but it is nice for what it is. Anyways, I am glad to see the return of the muslce cars. Each seems to offer something the others dont, hence good old fashion American competition. For examle, yes the Mustang is hot and others are playing catch up, but the GTO and SSR came out first. Do not get me wrong, I love the Mustang, but I will give credit where credit is due. I think Chevy had the right idea with the SSR with it being very retro and yet still heavy modern traits; however,it very is heavy and very pricy. The GTO simply is a great performance car, but wrapped in a plain wrapper. The Charger came back, but now has 4 doors. Now the Challenger is coming our way..again, very retro and quite possibly very good performnance, but a littel to much of a carbon copy of the original. Well, as much as I love my Stang, it did fall short in power. The GTO was introduced with 350 HP and bumped up to 400 HP. The Charger has 340 HP andhas an option (SRT-8) to 410 HP. Even the sluggish SSR came out with 300 HP and has been bumped up to 390 HP. The Challenger is looking to come out with 350+ HP, so Mustang's little 300 HP (450 HP in VERY LIMITED COBRA) is the Mustang's downside.
In short each of the retro rides offers something unique to their customers, hence the competiton factor. They all have their pros and cons. The Mustang pros are without a doubt the "gotta have it" looks, the bang for the buck and available today. While its cons are lower power. The GTO has the power, performance and comfort, but lacks the looks (and to some degree the options the Mustang offers). The SSR has the looks and now the power, but is off the charts in price. The Charger has the power, the price and creature comforts, but is so far removed from the original with having 4 doors. Now the Challenger has the retro looks and power, but too retro and not available today. Even the Prowler, though having cool looks, was simply priced out of the market for us regular guys. While the T-Bird was very retro, but it just did not catch on. So take your pros and cons and choose the ride for you. Just enjoy whatever retro ride you choose.
The Challenger will weigh a TON, guaranteed!!, compared to the already too heavy Mustang.
Just as the rest of the 300C/Magnum/Charger has a 40 hp advantage, it will still be a bit slower, due to weight.
I gawrontee.
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
Really the Mustang wasn't the first car in this retro trend. PT Cruiser, Chevy SSR, etc. have an old car retro look and were out before. The Mustang is the most extreme though I'd say.
you know before I picked up my car, I felt also that it was very 67~69-ish looking- but parked beside the 69 it looks not only way different, but suprisingly bigger too...sitting side by side the 69 looks 'smallish' and all the styling 'copied' just isnt there...the shape bears a weak resemblance in areas, but really nothings even close. The cool thing is that either are instantly recognizable as mustangs from any angle/distance- in that Ford did a great job.
regarding the challenger, I LOVE the looks of that car(2nd to 69 mustang fastback, my favorite was always the challenger...sorry). while it looks carbon copied from the old one, I wouldnt doubt seeing it side by side with a old one might show its been altered way more than it looks. In any event, I cant see anything wrong with repopping classics as long as the underpinnings are state of the art. Even our straight axled mustangs seem to have hit that...If Ford had built a 'carbon copy' 69? heck yes I'd have bought one- but they managed instead to build one totally different that still appealed strongly to me- and a lot of other folks
If Chrysler is smart(doubtful) they will offer a 'mustang performance level' trim in Mustangs price range. Otherwise low volume might make it a one or two year wonder...I still think ford ought to tool another flex line for the mustang or to get the mx6 off its line- if they could build more(even drop the price) they would sell- volume of cheaper cars dont appeal to beancounters, but if they look beyond the bottom line and see the additional suppliers/additional jobs create additional buyers eventually, maybe they could turn this around. If they base price that car over 25k or build it across the border, I hope they choke on it. Same would go to ford from me- if the mustang was mexican/chinese, no thanks. Ford built a beautiful genuine american hotrod with a american engine and priced it in the mid 20's- they earned my money. I just hope others will follow suit...bowties or pentastars, I want to see more pretty cars on the road...
__________________
Our Blue Fords:
2007 V6 Vista Blue/Auto/Coupe/Pony (Wife's car)
2006 GT Vista Blue/Stick/Coupe (Mine)
1969 Fastback Acapulco Blue (in pieces since '84)
1965 Galaxie 500 LTD Caspian Blue/White
you know before I picked up my car, I felt also that it was very 67~69-ish looking- but parked beside the 69 it looks not only way different, but suprisingly bigger too...sitting side by side the 69 looks 'smallish' and all the styling 'copied' just isnt there...the shape bears a weak resemblance in areas, but really nothings even close. The cool thing is that either are instantly recognizable as mustangs from any angle/distance- in that Ford did a great job.
regarding the challenger, I LOVE the looks of that car(2nd to 69 mustang fastback, my favorite was always the challenger...sorry). while it looks carbon copied from the old one, I wouldnt doubt seeing it side by side with a old one might show its been altered way more than it looks. In any event, I cant see anything wrong with repopping classics as long as the underpinnings are state of the art. Even our straight axled mustangs seem to have hit that...If Ford had built a 'carbon copy' 69? heck yes I'd have bought one- but they managed instead to build one totally different that still appealed strongly to me- and a lot of other folks
If Chrysler is smart(doubtful) they will offer a 'mustang performance level' trim in Mustangs price range. Otherwise low volume might make it a one or two year wonder...I still think ford ought to tool another flex line for the mustang or to get the mx6 off its line- if they could build more(even drop the price) they would sell- volume of cheaper cars dont appeal to beancounters, but if they look beyond the bottom line and see the additional suppliers/additional jobs create additional buyers eventually, maybe they could turn this around. If they base price that car over 25k or build it across the border, I hope they choke on it. Same would go to ford from me- if the mustang was mexican/chinese, no thanks. Ford built a beautiful genuine american hotrod with a american engine and priced it in the mid 20's- they earned my money. I just hope others will follow suit...bowties or pentastars, I want to see more pretty cars on the road...
yeah but the mustang is here and now, the challengers and camaros aren't yet. boy do i love the looks of the late 60s and 70s comming back wish my hair would.
i'll tell you out of all the retro cars the mustang spirit was captured to a t. pt cruiser fell flat with me on the uninspired rear end, ssr fenders too flat rounded might have looked better, gto where?? looked like another ricer. magnum (i hated our family station wagons) charger 4doors the general lee doesn't even have one hhr pt cruiser twin
noo the mustang isnt that short on power...in fact it isnt short at all...in road and tracks comparison of gto, mustang and charger... the mustang was in a solid second to the gto off the line and well ahead of the charger at 340hp...look at all the facts...it isnt just hp...its handling...its WEIGHT...of course driver but our mustangs will tuck their tails for no other car and if that challenger comes a knockin and i cant beat her with my lil poney the first time...i guarantee you i will the second after a weekend in my garage
yeah but the charger is an automatic,thats not quite apples to apples comparison.you'll have to install horsepower boosters cause you know that challenger is probably going to push 350 to 400+horses
Last edited by stig1950; 12-25-2005 at 02:56 AM.
Reason: adding
An excellent point. Hadn't thought of that. You could argue that the "retro" trend has also been seen in the Chrysler 300, the Plymouth Prowler, and many other vehicles. It really doesn't surprise me. Most things from the eras these cars inspirations came from had an elegance of design that I think America is missing nowadays.
yeah, starting with the Viper . . .
__________________
Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,his upper rooms by injustice,making his countrymen work for nothing...Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar?Did not your father have food and drink?He did what was right and just,so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy,and so all went well...But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain,on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion. Jer 22:13, 15-17
i agree i like to see the elegance from the past coming back . steel instead of cheap plastic. and nice badges proudly proclaiming model or manufacturer.i love the clean looks of our mustangs just enough bling theres no doubt from any distance what you're looking at
I'm not sure what his feelings on power are, but heres how I feel:
the new mustang is probably- no for sure- the quickest car Ive ever owned, but, growing up I started out with a 429 69 gal, a 396 elcamino, 396 camaro, 396 81 dodge pickup, and a bunch of average performing cars...while the new mustang would run away and hide from any of these, gotta say I still and always will miss the feel of those bigblocks. The new car sounds sweet at over 2500 rpm, but heck, I think the old 429 was putting out near 500 ft/lb at lower rpm, and putting out a LOT less attention(police) getting sounds. If youve never had a bigblock you would not believe the difference- if you have, then you know what I mean.
I think the only way Ford would be able to make the new mustang better in everyday 'feel' would be to offer a optional revamped severely undersquare mod motor, keeping displacement similar/probably milege too(might benefit from 6 spd w/second overdrive) but the lil motor needs some torque for street fun...yes hp is hp, and the current powerhouse would outrun it, but in everyday, legal driving where probably 95% of most cars wind up, I think a 400+ ft/lb at just over 2k could be done with a small undersquare motor...even if it redlined at 5k or a bit less...heck I had a lowly 2 barrel 71 ltd 400 that made 450 ft/lb stock just off idle(4" stroke) and it shoved that 2+ ton battleship around pretty darn well(doubt it ever got revved over 4k- but never needed to...). to me hp might win the races, but lowend torque is just legal, everyday, every stoplight, 'feel it in the seat of your pants' more fun. I'd be even happier with the mustang if it had half~2/3 the hp but double the lowend torque. Doubt I'll ever race the car, but plan on wearing it out- everyday torque is just fun...if I could get that from a lil motor with good mileage, all the better.
(btw- my 81 dodge w/bbc got 17 highway- my 93 f150 w/300-6 got 18...)
just one opinion from a fan of off idle monster torque
__________________
Our Blue Fords:
2007 V6 Vista Blue/Auto/Coupe/Pony (Wife's car)
2006 GT Vista Blue/Stick/Coupe (Mine)
1969 Fastback Acapulco Blue (in pieces since '84)
1965 Galaxie 500 LTD Caspian Blue/White
I too am not a big Dodge fan, however the new Challenger looks awesome to me. I like the pistol grip shifter, a powerful hemi, and I like the looks of this car, even better than the 70's Challengers. I think the new Challenger will be a great addition to the muscle cars of today. Hat's off to Dodge for bringing it back!!!
The New Challenger 
Hear, hear! 
