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Unread 09-05-2011   #1 (permalink)
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Question Road Course Setup

So I'm picking up my new 5.0 this Friday (GT, Brembo,3.73). This is my first Mustang, I use to drive an RX-8. I plan on road racing it at least 5-7 times a season at Road America (kick a%$ track). I decided on the 5.0 over another RX-8 (wife wrecked old one) due to the fact that the RX-8 is a better handling car than the 5.0 but it's much more expensive to get it to have the power of the 5.0. The 5.0 on the other hand may not handle as great in stock form but after a few grand I'm sure it can surpas the 8. So in the end the 5.0 was the most cost effective option.
So, being new to the mustang world what would be the steps I take to beef up the suspension. The driver mod will be done in early Spring as I do about 4 days of events, so by early summer I'll start the suspension upgrades. I'm new to american muscle so i am cluless. I want a set-up that will work great together. I was thinking of doing the upgrade in two stages. First body regidity (sway bars, subframes etc...) then actual suspension (coil overs, lcas etc...). It's my DD but just to and from work (15 miles each way), the family car (Pilot) does the rest. I need some drivabilty but can handle a stiff ride as long as it dosn't break my back.
What do you think?
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Unread 09-06-2011   #2 (permalink)
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From what I've read about the BOSS Laguna Seca I would just mimic that setup with your GT. You could even install the BOSS instake manifold to top it off.
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Unread 09-06-2011   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12blackgt View Post
From what I've read about the BOSS Laguna Seca I would just mimic that setup with your GT. You could even install the BOSS instake manifold to top it off.
Do up know the particulars of the Laguna Seca? If not I'll just research. Thanks
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Unread 09-06-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog1679 View Post
So I'm picking up my new 5.0 this Friday (GT, Brembo,3.73). This is my first Mustang, I use to drive an RX-8. I plan on road racing it at least 5-7 times a season at Road America (kick a%$ track). I decided on the 5.0 over another RX-8 (wife wrecked old one) due to the fact that the RX-8 is a better handling car than the 5.0 but it's much more expensive to get it to have the power of the 5.0. The 5.0 on the other hand may not handle as great in stock form but after a few grand I'm sure it can surpas the 8. So in the end the 5.0 was the most cost effective option.
So, being new to the mustang world what would be the steps I take to beef up the suspension. The driver mod will be done in early Spring as I do about 4 days of events, so by early summer I'll start the suspension upgrades. I'm new to american muscle so i am cluless. I want a set-up that will work great together. I was thinking of doing the upgrade in two stages. First body regidity (sway bars, subframes etc...) then actual suspension (coil overs, lcas etc...). It's my DD but just to and from work (15 miles each way), the family car (Pilot) does the rest. I need some drivabilty but can handle a stiff ride as long as it dosn't break my back.
What do you think?
I don't think there is anything you can really do with the 'subframes'. You can install a tubular k-member in the front very easily, but it seems like an excessive thing to do at first.

For streetability I would look at koni sport struts/shocks and steeda sport springs instead of coilovers. This setup is plenty stiff, lots of people use it for auto-x, and it doesn't require constant tweaking. I am currently running this setup and with the konis turned up high, I can see no reason why I would need anything more. Of course, if you want to go with coilovers then there are plenty of companies that make them.

The baseline recommended upgrades to make the new mustangs corner well seems to be pretty simple:
  • Adjustable shocks/struts (koni sports are excellent, but the backorders suck)
  • Lowering springs
  • Adjustable strut mounts
  • Rear LCA relocation brackets to help the car hook after lowering (usually along with some aftermarket LCAs)
  • Sway bars - I can't really comment on these because I haven't upgraded yet
  • Adjustable Panhard rod - This is just used to center the rear axle after lowering. If you go with a watts linkage, you don't need it.
  • Watts Link (not really required, but I've never heard anything but good stuff about them)

As for body rigidity...I am not sure what you can really do with the S197s aside from replace the from k-member with a tubular version. I don't think many people mess around with that stuff. Even griggs racing says the S197 chassis is stiff enough as is.

This guy is a very popular vendor who would be happy to discuss suspension upgrades if you give him a call. He hooked me up with most of my components. He races, so he knows what he's talking about:
Strano Performance Parts - Parts Catalog

Steeda makes a lot of suspension parts, their HD strut mounts are very popular:
Mustang Performance | Mustang Cold Air Intakes | Mustang Short Shifters | Mustang Lowering Springs | Mustang Exhaust | Mustang Pulleys

Griggs makes a ridiculous total suspension replacement that can cost upwards of $10k, even if it's out of your budget it's still interesting to look at:
Griggs Racing Products

There are a lot of people road racing/auto-crossing these cars and I'm sure they will chime in here. I have been amazed at how friendly this community is (coming from BMW and Mercedes), and the vendors are downright awesome. Good luck!
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Unread 09-06-2011   #5 (permalink)
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The most important thing for track use is tires. Put a few laps on the car before going wild with suspension mods before you actually take a few steps backwards.

Take a look at Enkei PF-01 18x9.5 +45 with 285/35/18 Hankook RS3s. Another member on this forum(Jsnyng) is using these to great effect with their better grip and huge weight reduction.

After that I would go a suspension setup recommended by Sam Strano. Keep things simple at first and find actual areas that are underperforming before you replace them.
 
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Unread 09-06-2011   #6 (permalink)
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I'll doing a few track days in early spring, based on how it drives I'll start the upgrades in early summer.
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Unread 09-06-2011   #7 (permalink)
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Good taste in tracks (Road America). The 400+ horses come in handy there, three timse per lap. I've been up there three times for weekend events this year, in a 2011 GT/CS. One more scheduled for October. I haven't done anything handling-wise other than swap out with softer/wider tires (but not R Comp, yet) and lowering springs (Eibach Pro-Kit) at this point. Of course, that is rarely recommended without swapping the struts & shocks at the same time. But for what this neophyte knows, it's been doing fine. And I've been having fun, which is the first priority anyway. With the Brembo package, you're probably better set up out of the box, and shouldn't have any problems or any NEED to change any suspension bits the first couple of track days. "WANTS" are another story . I'd say the only necessity before any track time are upgraded brake pads & fluid.
Hope to see you in Elkhart Lake. Other than at the NWSC event up there, I haven't come across any 2011+'s at a track.
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Unread 09-07-2011   #8 (permalink)
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I would DEFINITELY go with some sort of coil over. The nose dive when coming into a corner is pretty disconcerting. If you're not careful, your ass will be bouncing around while the front of the car is pinned to the ground.

I put a set of KW V3's on mine, and it's a completely different animal. It makes the car feel loads lighter on its feet. I chased these down for the road course as well and I can't recommend highly enough if you find yourself looking for a set of coilovers. They're expensive as crap though.
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Unread 09-07-2011   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUFUS View Post
Good taste in tracks (Road America). The 400+ horses come in handy there, three timse per lap. I've been up there three times for weekend events this year, in a 2011 GT/CS. One more scheduled for October. I haven't done anything handling-wise other than swap out with softer/wider tires (but not R Comp, yet) and lowering springs (Eibach Pro-Kit) at this point. Of course, that is rarely recommended without swapping the struts & shocks at the same time. But for what this neophyte knows, it's been doing fine. And I've been having fun, which is the first priority anyway. With the Brembo package, you're probably better set up out of the box, and shouldn't have any problems or any NEED to change any suspension bits the first couple of track days. "WANTS" are another story . I'd say the only necessity before any track time are upgraded brake pads & fluid.
Hope to see you in Elkhart Lake. Other than at the NWSC event up there, I haven't come across any 2011+'s at a track.
I use to track my RX8 at Road America, that track did not favor low HP cars. Those long straights and hill climb on the fron straight killed me. But not anymore J Iíll probably do 2-3 track days (RA, Autobahn, & Black Hawk) in early Spring to get a feel for the car then Iíll decide on upgrades.

Do you drive yours in the winter? If so do you put winter tires on? If so what kind? Iím looking into Gt500 wheels and Michelin X-Ice XI2 235/45R18.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Ryan View Post
I would DEFINITELY go with some sort of coil over. The nose dive when coming into a corner is pretty disconcerting. If you're not careful, your ass will be bouncing around while the front of the car is pinned to the ground.

I put a set of KW V3's on mine, and it's a completely different animal. It makes the car feel loads lighter on its feet. I chased these down for the road course as well and I can't recommend highly enough if you find yourself looking for a set of coilovers. They're expensive as crap though.
I'll look into those.
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Unread 09-07-2011   #10 (permalink)
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My ideal street/roadcourse setup:

Upper and lower control arms:
2011-2012 Ford Mustang GT V6 Chrome Moly Street Upper & Lower Control Arm Package - UPR Products

Panhard bar:
2005-2011 Ford Mustang Pro Street Double Adjustable Pan Hard Bar - UPR Products

Panhard brace:
05-11 Mustang Pan Hard Brace

Swaybars:
2011-2012 Ford Mustang Anti-Roll Sway Bar Kit 35125.320 - UPR Products

and finish it of with some Eibach Multi-Pro R2 coilovers.

Of course, a second set of wheels with R-compound tires is a necessity.
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Unread 09-07-2011   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12blackgt View Post
From what I've read about the BOSS Laguna Seca I would just mimic that setup with your GT. You could even install the BOSS instake manifold to top it off.
Yes, BOSS parts would make it a track beast, but generally FRPP parts are way more expensive than their third-party counterparts.

Steeda is in bed with Ford, so their stuff really works well with the cars, but they are on the high side of price. So they are like a middle ground.

roybotnik and sharad have some good suggestions. UPR/BMR make some decent parts and are really low cost.
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Unread 09-07-2011   #12 (permalink)
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One major area where the Boss and even the Laguna Seca version are lacking is the fact that they still use factory rubber bushings with lots of deflection. Control arms with poly bushings will have a far more positive improvement than springs and shocks off the Boss mustangs.
 
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Unread 09-07-2011   #13 (permalink)
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All options are on the table. Can't wait till Friday.
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Unread 09-07-2011   #14 (permalink)
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i also would add on to the coilovers not neccessarily being 100% needed thing, i myself have the tokico d-spec gas adjust shocks/struts with eibach pro-kit springs and when i tuned it in i was taking 15-20mph mountain roads doing 40+ staying in my single lane running stock tires (my guess is 7-8inch all season tires). i actually the front tires hold the car down when i was taking the turns hard. you can do A LOT without coil overs with cheaper parts. but if you want a 110% then get the coilovers. remember to get the caster camber plate to align everything
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Unread 09-07-2011   #15 (permalink)
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My koni sports have completely eliminated nose dive. Going to coilovers would give me a crappier ride and something that I would always be messing around with... I couldn't ever leave them alone. This suspension already seems to overwhelm the tires anyways.
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