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2011-2014 Mustang Talk Forum

2011-2014 Talk | 2011-2014 GT | 2011-2014 V6 | 2005-2010 Talk | 2005-2010 GT | 2005-2010 V6 | Shelby GT500 | Mustang Tech 
 

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Unread 01-29-2013   #1 (permalink)
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Default Apparently no power gains from a tune for 2013 GT

Just the facts straight:

According to Ford, 2013 GT makes 420 HP / 390 TQ on a premium gas (likely 91), dropping to 402HP / 377 TQ on regular. So, we can gain 18HP/13TQ (~15HP/11TQ to the wheels) just by using a premium gas.

BAMA-tuned 2013 Mustang GT provides a 19 HP/13TQ gain with 93/Tune over 87/stock, per their own dyno chart (see below). If 15HP/11TQ of that came from a better gas (93 vs 87), then what's the gain from the tune itself? It seems to be just 4HP/2TQ, but even that might have been due to using 93 gas over 91 (Ford likely measured 420HP with 91 gas, they could have easily gotten it to 424HP with 93)


I guess the stock tune for 2013 is so good that it doesn't leave much on the table...

Please let me know your thoughts.

3.7_DD




For reference:
see BAMA Video below:
Mustang Diablosport InTune Tuner Overview Review - YouTube

BAMA stock/87 dyno run - 364HP/358TQ 2:42 in the video
BAMA tune/93 dyno run - 383HP/371TQ 2:49 in the video
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Unread 01-29-2013   #2 (permalink)
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Thats what it looks like. The gains on the '11 and 12's are minimal as well. Seems like the only thing its good for is calibrating wheels and gears.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #3 (permalink)
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I have the Steeda 91 octane tune on my 12 GT. Never dyno'ed it before or after, but the butt dyno definately noticed a difference. Of course the '12 was rated at 412hp, not 420.

Again, not sure what the actual HP/torque gains were from my tune, but the better throttle response and higher redline definately make for a more exhilarating ride. Happy I did it.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pac-man View Post
I have the Steeda 91 octane tune on my 12 GT. Never dyno'ed it before or after, but the butt dyno definately noticed a difference. Of course the '12 was rated at 412hp, not 420.

Again, not sure what the actual HP/torque gains were from my tune, but the better throttle response and higher redline definately make for a more exhilarating ride. Happy I did it.
If Diablo was advertising "better throttle response and higher redline" that would be fine. But they're advertising 22/25 hp/tq gains on a Bone-stock gt.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #5 (permalink)
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You can't go by what Ford says. What did YOUR car dyno at bone stock? What did it do after a tune? That's the only way you can accurately judge gains.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #6 (permalink)
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Today's new cars are so advanced with their engines that tuning isn't what it used to be unless its a boosted car that you are tuning. Most of the tunes are their to adjust the timing and help get better throttle response along with personal adjustment options. The tune works well with other bolt-ons to benefit it but just a tune alone will produce minimum gains but you will notice that your car runs better. On the other hand, the new V6 mustangs look as if they get descent results. My 2012 V6 mustang bone stock running 93 octane put down 259. With 93 race tune, and cold air intake, I took it back and ran same gas and it put down 290. Don't get me wrong here, I would much rather have a GT than my six banger and no matter how many bolt-ons I put on, it will never hang with one.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangMatt3.7 View Post
Today's new cars are so advanced with their engines that tuning isn't what it used to be unless its a boosted car that you are tuning. Most of the tunes are their to adjust the timing and help get better throttle response along with personal adjustment options. The tune works well with other bolt-ons to benefit it but just a tune alone will produce minimum gains but you will notice that your car runs better. On the other hand, the new V6 mustangs look as if they get descent results. My 2012 V6 mustang bone stock running 93 octane put down 259. With 93 race tune, and cold air intake, I took it back and ran same gas and it put down 290. Don't get me wrong here, I would much rather have a GT than my six banger and no matter how many bolt-ons I put on, it will never hang with one.
Thats not exactly a back-to-back dyno. But nice #'s notheless.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #8 (permalink)
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There is more to a tune than peak HP numbers. I would even go as far as to say that anybody who bases the efficacy of a tune solely on its peak gains is a fool.

One cannot truly gauge the impact of a tune without before/after dyno sheets. Preferably on the same day, on the same car, on the same dyno.

Anybody with any experience knows that peak HP isn't the real story, it's the area "under the curve".
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Unread 01-29-2013   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye18 View Post
There is more to a tune than peak HP numbers. I would even go as far as to say that anybody who bases the efficacy of a tune solely on its peak gains is a fool.

One cannot truly gauge the impact of a tune without before/after dyno sheets. Preferably on the same day, on the same car, on the same dyno.

Anybody with any experience knows that peak HP isn't the real story, it's the area "under the curve".
Thats the problem, the #'s suck throughout the curve.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie2011GT View Post
You can't go by what Ford says. What did YOUR car dyno at bone stock? What did it do after a tune? That's the only way you can accurately judge gains.
Very true. Two consecutive engines off the assembly line will have different numbers, depending on what combination of tolerances in the parts it was built with.

I dyno'd my car stock, it put down 386HP to the wheels when (according to the shop) most cars were coming in with 10-15HP less (which even then doesn't mean a whole lot since they weren't all done back-to-back). But either way it's putting out more than the rated 412 stock for a '12.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.7_DD View Post
Just the facts straight:

According to Ford, 2013 GT makes 420 HP / 390 TQ on a premium gas (likely 91), dropping to 402HP / 377 TQ on regular. So, we can gain 18HP/13TQ (~15HP/11TQ to the wheels) just by using a premium gas.

BAMA-tuned 2013 Mustang GT provides a 19 HP/13TQ gain with 93/Tune over 87/stock, per their own dyno chart (see below). If 15HP/11TQ of that came from a better gas (93 vs 87), then what's the gain from the tune itself? It seems to be just 4HP/2TQ, but even that might have been due to using 93 gas over 91 (Ford likely measured 420HP with 91 gas, they could have easily gotten it to 424HP with 93)


I guess the stock tune for 2013 is so good that it doesn't leave much on the table...

For reference:
see BAMA Video below:
Mustang Diablosport InTune Tuner Overview Review - YouTube

BAMA stock/87 dyno run - 364HP/358TQ 2:42 in the video
BAMA tune/93 dyno run - 383HP/371TQ 2:49 in the video
Trolling with a thread title?

Those are good gains, WITHOUT a CAI being installed. If anything, that tune is pretty damn good. Those are probably the same gains 11s & 12s would see, give or take HP/TQ & tolerance differences.

I fail to grasp what point you are trying to make.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #12 (permalink)
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420 is plenty for me. Now if I was stuck with the V6, I would for sure be looking for a tune.

Have a nice day OP! :shiny:
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Unread 01-29-2013   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.7_DD View Post
Just the facts straight:

According to Ford, 2013 GT makes 420 HP / 390 TQ on a premium gas (likely 91), dropping to 402HP / 377 TQ on regular. So, we can gain 18HP/13TQ (~15HP/11TQ to the wheels) just by using a premium gas.

BAMA-tuned 2013 Mustang GT provides a 19 HP/13TQ gain with 93/Tune over 87/stock, per their own dyno chart (see below). If 15HP/11TQ of that came from a better gas (93 vs 87), then what's the gain from the tune itself? It seems to be just 4HP/2TQ, but even that might have been due to using 93 gas over 91 (Ford likely measured 420HP with 91 gas, they could have easily gotten it to 424HP with 93)
My thoughts?

My thought is that you're incorrectly assuming that Ford uses 91 octane when testing for peak HP & TQ.

Therefore, your entire post is based on false, incorrectly assumed information.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks for your input!

As you said, I couldn't be 100% sure whether Ford used 91 or 93 octane to extract 420HP from a 2013 GT (though Ford mentions 91 in the specs). Therefore, I outlined both scenarios in my original post, and they didn't change the story much:

- If Ford used 93 octane, then the real power gains from the tune are 4HP/2TQ
- If Ford used 91 octane, then there are no power gains from the tune at all, beyond what you should gain by just switching to a better gas.

Thanks again and I appreciate your further comments.
All I am trying to do is to better understand what power somebody could gain from a tune, having a 2013 Mustang.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock22357 View Post
My thoughts?

My thought is that you're incorrectly assuming that Ford uses 91 octane when testing for peak HP & TQ.

Therefore, your entire post is based on false, incorrectly assumed information.
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Unread 01-29-2013   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.7_DD View Post
Thanks for your input!

As you said, I couldn't be 100% sure whether Ford used 91 or 93 octane to extract 420HP from a 2013 GT (though Ford mentions 91 in the specs). Therefore, I outlined both scenarios in my original post, and they didn't change the story much:

- If Ford used 93 octane, then the real power gains from the tune are 4HP/2TQ
- If Ford used 91 octane, then there are no power gains from the tune at all, beyond what you should gain by just switching to a better gas.

Thanks again and I appreciate your further comments.
All I am trying to do is to better understand what power somebody could gain from a tune, having a 2013 Mustang.

3.7_DD
Like I said before, look at dyno numbers for the same car bone stock, then tuned and dynoed on the same machine on the same day. BAMA has plenty of those comparisons on their site for you to see. There are also plenty of other tune threads with personal experiences. No one car comes out of the factory putting down EXACTLY the same numbers, so using Fords claimed numbers against a dyno from another car isnt an accurate way of judging gains.

Bottom line: a tune will increase your HP. It will also help with timing, shift points, etc. Only you can determine if its worth it for you.
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