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2011+ Mustang GT Tech Forum

2011+ Talk | 2011+ GT | 2011+ V6 | 2005-2010 Talk | 2005-2010 GT | 2005-2010 V6 | Shelby GT500 | Mustang Tech 
 

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Unread 09-06-2010   #1 (permalink)
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Default 2011 Mustang 5.0 engine oil cooler?

Guys and gals,
Anyone know of an engine oil cooler kit for the new 5.0. I am wondering if Ford is planning on one for the Boss 302 and if so if it will air to oil or water to oil type. I don't have my car yet so I dont know if there is a location in the lower grill opening to mount one with Aeroquip fittings and filter block adapter like I installed on my 87 GT. My understanding is the performance is reduced when oil temps rise to 250 F, which is fine but being a nut I like to get the max performance from my engines or at least know I do during track day or Auto-X.
Steve
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Unread 09-06-2010   #2 (permalink)
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Unlikely the car will really need one except for serious, extended track work. With 8 quarts in the system it should run pretty cool. Water temps are not super high at around 195 degrees. Apparently the bosses were left for future cooler fittings but from my experience, even with a thermostatic plate, it is very easy to over cool your oil. Someone that has a temp gauge installed needs to chime in, but I suspect temps, for your usage, should not be a problem. I just came from a 370Z where temps are a huge issue. I installed a cooler and did a lot of datalogging etc. On that car with it's high friction valve train and a 5 qt capacity it was desirable. I think not so much on the mustang..
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Unread 09-06-2010   #3 (permalink)
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It would be interesting to see actual oil temp figures in different situations. I agree that oil temp should not be an issue without hard track duty or extended idling(law enforcement use?). And oil needs to reach a certain temp to be most effective, according to what I have read.
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Unread 09-06-2010   #4 (permalink)
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RPM's are big oil temp raiser. Sustained high RPM's call for a cooler.
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Unread 09-06-2010   #5 (permalink)
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I think an oil cooler is not necessary and possibly detrimental unless the car spends most of it's time as a track car..this car has quite a large sump for a reason.
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Unread 09-06-2010   #6 (permalink)
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The amount of oil an engine sump holds does not reduce the temperature of the oil it only takes slightly longer for the oil to get hot. The heat disapation is the same whether it holds 5 quarts or 8 quarts. An oil cooler does make a difference and oil to water cooler has the advantage of both heating the oil and cooling the oil to the same temperature as the water. This may be cool enough or may not depending on the engine design and requirements. If the water temperature is over heating then using the water to cool the oil is a bad idea but if the water temperature stays where you want then adding the job of cooling the oil may work out well.
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Unread 09-06-2010   #7 (permalink)
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interesting..maybe some of the guys that have 5.0's as track only vehicles can chime in since us DD's don't really have a need for this
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Unread 09-07-2010   #8 (permalink)
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I've had a few full 25 minute track sessions at full on (4500-6800 RPM) and experienced no overheating. This was true 25 minutes of hot lapping, not including warm up or cool down. Unless you are doing enduro... I wouldn't worry about it. They ran this engine hot (redline) without stopping for hundreds, if not thousands of hours during testing. It's track ready... not sure about enduro... but def. "track".
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Unread 09-07-2010   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908ssp View Post
The amount of oil an engine sump holds does not reduce the temperature of the oil it only takes slightly longer for the oil to get hot. The heat disapation is the same whether it holds 5 quarts or 8 quarts.

Gonna have to disagree here. With a large 8qt sump, more oil spends more time in the sump where it is cooled by airflow. Squeeze the supply down to 5 quarts and a greater percentage of the capacity is spent in the engine and valvetrain where the heat is generated. Rinse and repeat. Oil is a cooling medium. The more you have and the smaller percentage spent up where the heat is generated, the greater the cooling effect.
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Unread 09-07-2010   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modshack View Post
Gonna have to disagree here. With a large 8qt sump, more oil spends more time in the sump where it is cooled by airflow. Squeeze the supply down to 5 quarts and a greater percentage of the capacity is spent in the engine and valvetrain where the heat is generated. Rinse and repeat. Oil is a cooling medium. The more you have and the smaller percentage spent up where the heat is generated, the greater the cooling effect.
for daily driving, i agree. however, i remember reading an article where a coyote development engineer said the large sump helps avoid the need of an oil cooler but for "heavy" track use, it is recommended.
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Unread 09-07-2010   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Guys and gals,
Anyone know of an engine oil cooler kit for the new 5.0. I am wondering if Ford is planning on one for the Boss 302 and if so if it will air to oil or water to oil type. I don't have my car yet so I dont know if there is a location in the lower grill opening to mount one with Aeroquip fittings and filter block adapter like I installed on my 87 GT. My understanding is the performance is reduced when oil temps rise to 250 F, which is fine but being a nut I like to get the max performance from my engines or at least know I do during track day or Auto-X.
Steve
Eight replies and not one addressed your question!

I have searched for this answer and this is the closest I have come:

Ford Racing M-6642-S101 - Ford Racing Engine Oil Cooler Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Maybe in time there will be one that is specific to the 2011.

This article on the Coyote engine says that the engineers were in favor of a cooler:

2011 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 Coyote Engine - 5.0 Mustang & Fast Fords

In my wanderings searching for an oil temp gauge that would not look too amateur, I came across this neat little deal that can be mounted in the air conditioning outlet with the Roush kit:

Aeroforce Ford CN Series SINGLE Interceptor Scan Gauge [AF-CNF01] : Lethal Performance, Performance parts for Ford Mustangs

I hope this helps.

jim
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Unread 09-07-2010   #12 (permalink)
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Here is one for the 2011, but it is not from Ford:

Mishimoto Performance Oil Cooler Kit at AmericanMuscle.com - Free Shipping!

jim
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Unread 09-07-2010   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks Captcarb
I do like the Mishimoto unit. I guess I have to check if our FL-500 filters are the same thread and base as the FL-1A. Also if the filter location is within range of the premade braided lines. I coul always make my own aeroquips if need be. I also read the interview with the Coyote engineers and read between the lines, they wanted an oil cooler and the bean counters cut it as 'most' owners won't encounter sustained high revs. My BMW 335 had the same issue, only manual trans cars got the oil cooler (mine) but the autos didn't. After numerous limp home mode episodes BMW retrofitted the coolers to cars that the owners requested at no charge. I hope Ford doesn't face this but I know keeping engine oil between 225-235 is optimal for friction reduction and oil life, the oil is the only coolant for main and rod bearing as well as all the valve train parts except the valve heads which transfer heat through the valve seat to the coolant jacket around the chambers. we even have piston cooling jets to allow 11-1 compression withot detonation. I'll get off the soapbox but I think an engine oil cooler is a good investment for anyone running a 'tune', S/C, or any extreme duty such as track days or multiple drag runs.
Steve
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Unread 09-07-2010   #14 (permalink)
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It certainly could not hurt. If the concern is running too cold in cold climates then a guy could run a cooler with a thermostatic bypass.

jim
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Unread 09-07-2010   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captcarb View Post
It certainly could not hurt. If the concern is running too cold in cold climates then a guy could run a cooler with a thermostatic bypass.

jim
The problem is, thermostatic bypasses don't bypass 100% until they get up to temp. There is always a bleed through the cooler resulting in the oil coming up to temp slower particularly when it's cool out. And since they never really shut off you may find your oil overcooled in some climates. I had to build a partial block off plate for my 370 to keep things in line when it was cool out. And this in temperate NC without an excessively large cooler core.

This from Mocal (maker of Thermo take off plates):

"Mocal oil thermostats are designed to regulate oil flow
through cooling devices until optimal (minimum)
temperatures are reached. Cold oil enters the
thermostat and is bypassed through the center of the
unit returning to engine (figure 1). During warm-up
the thermostat never closes off oil flow to the cooler,
rather, it offers a less restrictive path for the oil to flow*
allowing the cooler to acclimate to system
temperature. As oil warms to 180 degrees (200 in high
temp versions) the operating "waxstat" closes the
bypass permitting full flow to cooler (figure 2).
*percentage of oil bypass can vary up to the point
where the bypass is closed and full flow to the cooler
is achieved.
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