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2011+ Mustang GT Tech Forum

2011+ Talk | 2011+ GT | 2011+ V6 | 2005-2010 Talk | 2005-2010 GT | 2005-2010 V6 | Shelby GT500 | Mustang Tech 
 

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Unread 10-18-2010   #1 (permalink)
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Default Borla Touring axleback: depth vs. drone

Hey guys, first time poster, long time Mustang owner, with my first opportunity to share with this well-knowledged community. I've spent the last 15 years in a '94 GT with a Mac exhaust, so I figured I knew something about drone. I've since upgraded to the new 2011 GT, 6spd manual, 3.73's. I wanted more exhaust note than stock, but personally didn't want to go too aggressive. I figured the Borla Touring was a safe bet: not overly aggressive in note, with no drone.

I got the axleback on this weekend(ordered from LM Performance on Thursday, delivered Friday, free shipping!). From the outside, the sound is about as expected, very deep, moderately throaty without being overly loud. Yet no one will mistake it for stock. For me, perfect. In the cabin, however, it's a different experience. The note is low, very low...and this translates, at least for me, some rather discomforting in-cabin tones. A relatively constant, low end boom on my ears, exaggerated right around 1800-2000rpm. I've spent 3 days trying to convince myself it's not there and not irritating me, but it is. On the highway, I caught myself looking for 7th gear, to avoid the 2000rpm range. It's not loudness, but just low, sub-sonic tone, that I feel on my ears as much as hear.

Now, am I just a crazy old man who just can't handle the muscle anymore, or am I saying my Borla Touring exhaust drones? Would an exhaust tone geared towards the lower end of the sound spectrum be more inclined to drone(for the lack of a better word), than one that highlights a more mid-ranged exhaust note, despite loudness? Is there anything about installation(loose clamps, loose pipes) that can affect or highlight drone? And, if it is me, and I'm just overly sensitive to the low end, can anyone familiar with an axleback that isn't so low end dominant?

I thought I had made a safe choice on an axleback, but I'm not pleased. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated...
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Unread 10-18-2010   #2 (permalink)
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This thread might be of some help to you

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...mod-5-0-a.html
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Unread 10-18-2010   #3 (permalink)
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Interesting post, OP. Especially since Borla makes such a big deal about not having any drone, any speed, and the Touring should be the quietest of the lot.

What you're experiencing sounds an awful lot like my Flowmaster Hushpowers - very nice sounding low frequency exhaust, except when droning around 1600-1800 rpm under load. I spend a lot of time trying to drive around that range. Definite love-hate relationship with the exhaust.
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Unread 10-18-2010   #4 (permalink)
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Yikes, just when I was starting to learn toward getting the same exhaust, I read this. Not cool. Please keep us all posted.
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Unread 10-18-2010   #5 (permalink)
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Default Am interested how this plays out

I too am looking at the Borla or Ford exhaust. Would be very interested to see if Modshacks suggestion will take your low frequency sound away. Would also be interested to see what David would say about his exhaust and the sound. If he is right and it is not a drone then Modshacks suggestion should work. Noises like electrical shorts are often difficult to track down.
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Unread 10-19-2010   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannapony View Post
Interesting post, OP. Especially since Borla makes such a big deal about not having any drone, any speed, and the Touring should be the quietest of the lot.

What you're experiencing sounds an awful lot like my Flowmaster Hushpowers - very nice sounding low frequency exhaust, except when droning around 1600-1800 rpm under load. I spend a lot of time trying to drive around that range. Definite love-hate relationship with the exhaust.
I think I've learned to drive around it now. Annoying though isn't it? After the suspension is put in this week, that is my next project... back to the exhaust indeed.... seems like Borla is the way to go, but I need something that won't "golden up" at the track, regardless of sound.
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Unread 10-19-2010   #7 (permalink)
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Zach, thanks for the tip on Modshacks's post. I hadn't seen it. It certainly couldn't hurt.

I was convinced Borla was the way to go. I don't question their ability to make a quality product. But, my personal expectation in buying Touring axleback was to avoid the annoyance of in-cabin discomfort. This is why I didn't purchase the Flowmasters, after reading more than one post about drone. For me, as of now, things haven't worked out as expected.

The problem with writing about it is that sound is so subjective. One man's noise is another man's roar. I call it "drone", you call it "emphasized low end frequency". It's very possible for any one of you to get in my car and not notice a thing, and call me crazy...maybe. I'm just looking for some advice in deciphering what it is that I hear. I have not found many posts on the Touring axleback, which is why I had to stop lurking here and bring it up.


Thanks for the thoughts, guys...
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Unread 10-19-2010   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljoseph View Post
Zach, t

The problem with writing about it is that sound is so subjective. One man's noise is another man's roar. I call it "drone", you call it "emphasized low end frequency". It's very possible for any one of you to get in my car and not notice a thing, and call me crazy...maybe. I'm just looking for some advice in deciphering what it is that I hear. I have not found many posts on the Touring axleback, which is why I had to stop lurking here and bring it up.


Thanks for the thoughts, guys...
Agree completely. Some guys who swear there is no drone actually have systems that'll make your ears bleed. Ultimately it's very fatiguing. Makes it hard to make decisions based on reports here. I've been happy with my Basanni's but they have more of a Euro tone and don't emphasize the lows that so many seem to like here.
When I had my Corvette, there were guys on the forum that went through 3-4 systems until they found the one they liked. There's always a market for a lightly used exhaust. If it's really a deal breaker, sell it and start again. The Sound deadening will help regardless of what you choose. Spend that $125 first, then move forward..
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Unread 10-19-2010   #9 (permalink)
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I sent the owner a PM to contact me. We'll get this straightened out. Feedback from enthusiasts have confirmed that the S-Type and ATAK systems have no drone so this post concerns me and we need to take a further look. You should not have any resonance issues and we are going to put a hold on the Touring system only until we get this resolved. I need to bring a car in and hear what's going on before I can say for sure but we went through many iterations of this exhaust during the prototype phase and learned quickly that even a slight variation to the muffler core can bring out objectionable frequencies. My assumption is that a slight change was unknowingly made during the transition from prototype to production and this will be easily identified once we get to hear a system that came from production.

If something is in fact wrong, or has changed from the prototype we'll make sure everyone who bought a Touring system gets the correct mufflers.

Thanks for letting us know about this and we appreciate the opportunity to make it right.

Just so there's no confusion, the S-Type and ATAK systems have absolutely no resonance issues, this only relates to the Touring system.

If anyone wants to contact me regarding this, or anything else, please send an email to davidb@borla.com
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Unread 10-19-2010   #10 (permalink)
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Now thats standing behind your product.

Looking forward to seeing the out come of this as the touring is at the top of the list.
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Unread 10-19-2010   #11 (permalink)
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David is correct, I have the S type and while it is loud, which is what I like and want, there is no drone. I haven't heard a touring or ATAK system.
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Unread 10-19-2010   #12 (permalink)
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I suppose that's why your exhausts have such a good rep, David! It's good to have vendors standing behind their products like that.
Drone is subjective to a degree, saw one guy that thought he had a "drone", but was actually a buzz/rattle from loose hardware!! Check your connections and hangers periodically.
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Unread 10-19-2010   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11GT4ME View Post
David is correct, I have the S type and while it is loud, which is what I like and want, there is no drone. I haven't heard a touring or ATAK system.
x2 on this. However, like many have said here already, this is a very subjective topic. In the video below there is a clip starting at around 2:03 taken with a flip camera (I know, not the greatest audiophile recording device out there) held in my left hand. This was all in 5th gear and mostly between 3-4K rpm and with just the driver side window cracked at the top. I don't consider this to be loud, noticeably louder than stock, yes but not disruptive or annoying loud, at least not to me. In fact, even though the camera is being held in the middle of the car I think it is actually picking up more wind than exhaust noise. I also don't consider any of this drone, maybe I'm a little def but none of it bothers me.



Oh yeah.... the post above from David... that's why I went with a Borla exhaust again.
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Unread 10-19-2010   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david borla View Post
I sent the owner a PM to contact me. We'll get this straightened out. Feedback from enthusiasts have confirmed that the S-Type and ATAK systems have no drone so this post concerns me and we need to take a further look. You should not have any resonance issues and we are going to put a hold on the Touring system only until we get this resolved. I need to bring a car in and hear what's going on before I can say for sure but we went through many iterations of this exhaust during the prototype phase and learned quickly that even a slight variation to the muffler core can bring out objectionable frequencies. My assumption is that a slight change was unknowingly made during the transition from prototype to production and this will be easily identified once we get to hear a system that came from production.

If something is in fact wrong, or has changed from the prototype we'll make sure everyone who bought a Touring system gets the correct mufflers.

Thanks for letting us know about this and we appreciate the opportunity to make it right.

Just so there's no confusion, the S-Type and ATAK systems have absolutely no resonance issues, this only relates to the Touring system.

If anyone wants to contact me regarding this, or anything else, please send an email to davidb@borla.com
WOW! I have never seen such a bold commitment to customer satisfaction, and such dedication from a manufacturer around the quality of their product. Mr. Borla, the world needs many more like you!
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Unread 10-19-2010   #15 (permalink)
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I also am a very happy owner. I installed my Borla ATAK exhaust along with a Steeda CAI and SCT tuner a week ago and this last weekend I took a nice 350 mile round trip to the Oregon Coast where I was able to really experiment with the car in many different situations.

I absolutely love the sound my car makes and was amazed how quiet it is inside at cruising. The sound is there when you want it to be as you get on the throttle, but once you drop into lower rpms it quiets down and in 6th gear you can barely hear any sound at all! It is unbelievable how something can sound so aggressive outside and yet not be overpowering inside the vehicle.

Borla is definitely the way to go with the 2011 Stang's and as you can see by David's response, their customer service cannot be matched.
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