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2011+ Mustang GT Tech Forum

2011+ Talk | 2011+ GT | 2011+ V6 | 2005-2010 Talk | 2005-2010 GT | 2005-2010 V6 | Shelby GT500 | Mustang Tech 
 

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Unread 06-21-2014   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonrakercat View Post
Ok - I have to play devils advocate here - I'm no expert and maybe biased from watching the bama tune video giving an increase of 30+ ftlb of torque (I'm a torque guy - not hp) and I don't have a tune on my vehicle yet. But I'm not at impressed at the above printout as I thought I would be .....

From the graph you've posted I've noticed a few things - it took 9 runs to tune the vehicle ?? (I know you have a few basic mods) and the max torque was only +7 ftlb - not what I would have expected from a tune - I would have hoped for more. Also the torque curve is not even over the stock - it dips & rises - hmmm...... Although there is good low end gains - the gains at 3K+ are small - bama advertises 53+ ftlb - (no I'm not a bama guy) but I'm trying to understand things here - I really thought the tune would wake the car up a bit more??

I know there is more to the tune than power - throttle response, changes to the rpm limiter as well as throttle pedal drive by wire response, keeping knock & other sensors in the safety ranges etc... - but still..???

Not trying to create friction here ... just trying to understand - maybe you asked Shaun for a very mild tune with better engine response and the biggest gain in fuel economy you could get ? or maybe Bama overstates their tune ??

If the above dyno run is what I can expect from a good quality tune - (and I take it there is not a huge difference in #'s between the top tuners) I'm not sure I'll be putting one on.....

Any answers anyone can give would be appreciated ....as I said - I am no expert and not trying to cause any friction ..... just looking for answers...
Your questions are entirely valid and Im curious for someone knowledgable to give an answer, but I will caution that 'advertised' gains or the gains you see in a product video are made under absolute best possible conditions for the particular product. They usually vary significantly from real world gains. I would be highly skeptical that just a Bama tune would net 53 rwtq.
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Unread 06-21-2014   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatopotomus View Post
Your questions are entirely valid and Im curious for someone knowledgable to give an answer, but I will caution that 'advertised' gains or the gains you see in a product video are made under absolute best possible conditions for the particular product. They usually vary significantly from real world gains. I would be highly skeptical that just a Bama tune would net 53 rwtq.
Yes Fatopotomus I absolutely agree - I typically tend to cut advertised gains in half - still on a dyno the gains are easily proved by before & after results.

Just don't understand the above tune - it seems to add very little powerwise.

For me a tune would involve a tuner, a tune, and maybe a dyno run or two - I expect about $ 800 - 1K for a total bill - and to yield the above results ??? I'd rather invest 5-6K in a roots s/c system and put in another 80-100 + ft lb over stock.
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Unread 06-21-2014   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonrakercat View Post
Yes Fatopotomus I absolutely agree - I typically tend to cut advertised gains in half - still on a dyno the gains are easily proved by before & after results.

Just don't understand the above tune - it seems to add very little powerwise.

For me a tune would involve a tuner, a tune, and maybe a dyno run or two - I expect about $ 800 - 1K for a total bill - and to yield the above results ??? I'd rather invest 5-6K in a roots s/c system and put in another 80-100 + ft lb over stock.
A Steed custom mail order tune (lifetime) and an SCT X4 go for $400
SCT X4 Mustang Tuner w/ Steeda Certified Tunes 388-7015 - Free Shipping!

Thats an easy 10-15 rwhp right there for $400. Add a decent set of long tubes, a catted x pipe and even a CAI and you got yourself another 20-25 rwhp. That stock 350-360 rwhp Coyote is pushing 400 rwhp on a cool day. 40-50 rwhp (Im not sure what the tq increase would be) for $2-$2.5K is not a bad deal.

But even if you cut everything out and just go for the tune, 10-15 rwhp is a screaming deal for $400. And Steeda has a stellar reputation for quality, so its a safe, reliable tune.

Its not palatable for a lot of people to spend $6K on a blower. Especially since a blower requires alot more attnetion to detail and tuning to keep running reliably than just incrementally adding a tune and exhaust components.
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Unread 06-21-2014   #19 (permalink)
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Look at the Bama video again. Stock dyno run was on 87 octane. Their tune was 93 octane.
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Unread 06-22-2014   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65sohc View Post
Look at the Bama video again. Stock dyno run was on 87 octane. Their tune was 93 octane.
That is just false advertising.
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Unread 06-22-2014   #21 (permalink)
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Where is BAMA advertising their 53 lb-ft gain? If you go by typical industry advertising techniques- that are quite often deceptive- it could be any rpm. You could make the argument that this AED tune also has a ~50 lb-ft increase right at 2200 rpm.

To be quite honest, I've always been a bit skeptical of BAMA.

Last edited by Blazin72; 06-22-2014 at 04:40 PM.
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Unread 06-22-2014   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatopotomus View Post
A Steed custom mail order tune (lifetime) and an SCT X4 go for $400
SCT X4 Mustang Tuner w/ Steeda Certified Tunes 388-7015 - Free Shipping!

Thats an easy 10-15 rwhp right there for $400. Add a decent set of long tubes, a catted x pipe and even a CAI and you got yourself another 20-25 rwhp. That stock 350-360 rwhp Coyote is pushing 400 rwhp on a cool day. 40-50 rwhp (Im not sure what the tq increase would be) for $2-$2.5K is not a bad deal.

But even if you cut everything out and just go for the tune, 10-15 rwhp is a screaming deal for $400. And Steeda has a stellar reputation for quality, so its a safe, reliable tune.

Its not palatable for a lot of people to spend $6K on a blower. Especially since a blower requires alot more attnetion to detail and tuning to keep running reliably than just incrementally adding a tune and exhaust components.
IMO I think LT headers might add 8-10, the catted x pipe I have my doubts would add anything- the stock system already has a small joiner for pressure equalization between the two exhaust runs - that's really all you need, and I don't believe in CAI's - I think they are snake oil - general rule of thumb is that for every 10 degree F. drop in air temp yields 1% gain in hp - the stock air intake is quite good.

Still if the tune gave 15-20hp increase - and I believe it's possible - over the mid range of the curve (not top or bottom end only) then it would be worth it - and I didn't know about Steeda - so thanks for the info there.

Yes blowers are $$$. But blowers are actually amazingly maintenance free and easy power adders - there are few things other than NO2 that will do the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 65sohc View Post
Look at the Bama video again. Stock dyno run was on 87 octane. Their tune was 93 octane.
Very very good point !! I missed that completely - that alone will cut their gains in half. Very deceptive. Hmmmmm.....
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Unread 06-23-2014   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonrakercat View Post
Ok - I have to play devils advocate here - I'm no expert and maybe biased from watching the bama tune video giving an increase of 30+ ftlb of torque (I'm a torque guy - not hp) and I don't have a tune on my vehicle yet. But I'm not at impressed at the above printout as I thought I would be .....

From the graph you've posted I've noticed a few things - it took 9 runs to tune the vehicle ?? (I know you have a few basic mods) and the max torque was only +7 ftlb - not what I would have expected from a tune - I would have hoped for more. Also the torque curve is not even over the stock - it dips & rises - hmmm...... Although there is good low end gains - the gains at 3K+ are small - bama advertises 53+ ftlb - (no I'm not a bama guy) but I'm trying to understand things here - I really thought the tune would wake the car up a bit more??

I know there is more to the tune than power - throttle response, changes to the rpm limiter as well as throttle pedal drive by wire response, keeping knock & other sensors in the safety ranges etc... - but still..???

Not trying to create friction here ... just trying to understand - maybe you asked Shaun for a very mild tune with better engine response and the biggest gain in fuel economy you could get ? or maybe Bama overstates their tune ??

If the above dyno run is what I can expect from a good quality tune - (and I take it there is not a huge difference in #'s between the top tuners) I'm not sure I'll be putting one on.....

Any answers anyone can give would be appreciated ....as I said - I am no expert and not trying to cause any friction ..... just looking for answers...
I personally don't trust the fictitious numbers that Bama and other Tuners are claiming. It's just clever advertising and marketing hype.

AED is realistic and honest. I was told to expect a 5whp peak gain. We made 15whp peak and plenty of additional power throughout the RPM range. Did it take 9 runs? Yes, it could have taken less runs/time but, Shaun continued making adjustments until he was satisfied with the results.

As you said, the additional power is only part of the equation. With the tune, you are finally able to apply FULL power to the pavement which is why you see many AED tuned cars picking up 3-4mph in the 1/4 while only making an additional 5-10 peak whp. The throttle response and being able to play with the top speed limiter, gear ration, and Revlimiter are also attractive features.

The car drives great with the AED tune. It sounds great. It gets better MPG. The package is worth the money. I highly recommend it.

Mike
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Unread 06-23-2014   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdrcr View Post
I personally don't trust the fictitious numbers that Bama and other Tuners are claiming. It's just clever advertising and marketing hype.

AED is realistic and honest. I was told to expect a 5whp peak gain. We made 15whp peak and plenty of additional power throughout the RPM range. Did it take 9 runs? Yes, it could have taken less runs/time but, Shaun continued making adjustments until he was satisfied with the results.

As you said, the additional power is only part of the equation. With the tune, you are finally able to apply FULL power to the pavement which is why you see many AED tuned cars picking up 3-4mph in the 1/4 while only making an additional 5-10 peak whp. The throttle response and being able to play with the top speed limiter, gear ration, and Revlimiter are also attractive features.

The car drives great with the AED tune. It sounds great. It gets better MPG. The package is worth the money. I highly recommend it.

Mike
Thanks for weighing in Mike - in the end it is only your opinion that counts on what Shaun has accomplished for you.

A few questions if you don't mind - did he say you would find any more power if you went to a 93 octane ?

And how is the throttle response and idling - do you have any rpms that you find engine stumbling or other detrimental effects of the tuning ??
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Unread 06-24-2014   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonrakercat View Post
Thanks for weighing in Mike - in the end it is only your opinion that counts on what Shaun has accomplished for you.

A few questions if you don't mind - did he say you would find any more power if you went to a 93 octane ?

And how is the throttle response and idling - do you have any rpms that you find engine stumbling or other detrimental effects of the tuning ??
You're welcome.

Yes, 93 octane would yield a little more power. A little more. I wouldn't expect anything like the numbers other companies are claiming.

The idle is rock steady and the throttle response is immediate throughout the entire RPM range. The drivability is flawless.

Mike
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Unread 4 Weeks Ago   #26 (permalink)
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I've never dynoed my car and always been skeptical of the tunes especially on a mostly stock car but I got the bama93 race tune on my car and there is a very noticeable differenc when switching between that and stock. Havent taken it back to the track yet but I can break the wheels loose a hundred times easier through the first 3 gears now with bama for sure, and in the top end it now feels like it just keeps pulling!

Worth every penny imo... + free tunes for life!
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Unread 3 Weeks Ago   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonrakercat View Post
I don't believe in CAI's - I think they are snake oil - general rule of thumb is that for every 10 degree F. drop in air temp yields 1% gain in hp - the stock air intake is quite good.
Since virtually every car now picks up its intake air from outside the engine bay the term Cold Air Intake is probably obsolete. A more accurate term would be Low Restriction Air Intake (LRAI?) because that is where the stock system is lacking. At peak engine flow there is a negative pressure of 23 inches of water in the stock intake tube vs. 5-6 inches in the Steeda tube. I measured this on the road with a manometer and it corresponds exactly with the flow bench data from C&L. It would also explain the 13 hp I gained in back to back dyno runs.
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Unread 3 Weeks Ago   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65sohc View Post
Since virtually every car now picks up its intake air from outside the engine bay the term Cold Air Intake is probably obsolete. A more accurate term would be Low Restriction Air Intake (LRAI?) because that is where the stock system is lacking. At peak engine flow there is a negative pressure of 23 inches of water in the stock intake tube vs. 5-6 inches in the Steeda tube. I measured this on the road with a manometer and it corresponds exactly with the flow bench data from C&L. It would also explain the 13 hp I gained in back to back dyno runs.
Very interesting- by the size of the stock air intake unit I thought the restriction would be the throttle body itself ?

When you made your dyno runs was the Steeda CAI the only thing that was changed ?(or was this with a tune and the cai?) and if you gained 13hp (I take it was high rpm area)- did you loose any in the lower rpm range ? (are you able to post or pm me your dyno results ?) - I'm really interested in this.

Sorry Rdcr - don't mean to hijack.
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Unread 3 Weeks Ago   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonrakercat View Post
Sorry Rdcr - don't mean to hijack.
Good info! Carry-on!

Mike
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Unread 3 Weeks Ago   #30 (permalink)
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Im running the AED E85 Boss CJ tune... Thumbs up from here. I haven't had a chance to dyno the new tune.
Made really good HP on gasoline tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazin72 View Post
Where is BAMA advertising their 53 lb-ft gain? If you go by typical industry advertising techniques- that are quite often deceptive- it could be any rpm. You could make the argument that this AED tune also has a ~50 lb-ft increase right at 2200 rpm.

To be quite honest, I've always been a bit skeptical of BAMA.

Is that across the curve or peak to peak HP? If its across the curve, I really wanna see the standard for the process that is written on this one.


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