only 1 refuel station within of a 100mile radius... i guess i wont be doing the swap soon.
Yep, 90% of us don't really have easy access. There are 2 in all of North Georgia, though one is only 8 miles from me.
Until the supply is out there near the demand, its a minor issue for the bulk of us.
ADM is the major manufacturer of ethanol in the US, and they have little ability to produce more right now. In 10 or 20 years, the situation might be different, but right now we couldn't switch our system over to ethanol (even just 15% ethanol) because we can't make enough.
Even importing it from Brazil (which is about to start) won't be nearly enough.
It will HELP the situation with imported oil, but only just a little. For it to displace large quantities of petroleum, the ethanol technology needs several revolutions that have not happened in this country just yet.
Its like the idea of switching cars to using batteries and electricity instead of fossil fuels. We need to more than double our power industry's capacity before THAT can happen.
It took us over 85 years to build our current petroleum energy infrastructure. We can't replace it overnight.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Which brand meth injection do you use? And what sort of methanol mixture?
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That is the kit that I use. I spray 100% methanol, no water mix. The methanol that I use is 99.99% pure, which is pretty much as pure as you can get. 5 Gallons will last me about 1.5 months and that is beating on it everyday. It can last even longer. I pay about $20 for five gallons. Just compare that to buying race gas everytank of gas and in about two months the kit will have fully paid for itself. But you need to know that you have to tune for it!! That is really important. It's seriously like running around on a race gas tune 24/7!! It is one of the best modifications for a forced induction car ever!!
DetailPage
That is the kit that I use. I spray 100% methanol, no water mix. The methanol that I use is 99.99% pure, which is pretty much as pure as you can get. 5 Gallons will last me about 1.5 months and that is beating on it everyday. It can last even longer. I pay about $20 for five gallons. Just compare that to buying race gas everytank of gas and in about two months the kit will have fully paid for itself. But you need to know that you have to tune for it!! That is really important. It's seriously like running around on a race gas tune 24/7!! It is one of the best modifications for a forced induction car ever!!
Very cool. I notice they offer a stainless system for $200 more than the $599 system. Is that the one you run (since you run 100% methanol)?
Also, how did you arrive at the proper tune for the street? Did it take a lot of time on a dyno?
Mana, thanks for the straight info - this is new to me. I was aware of various such systems (Anderson Ford sells one), and had seen the writeups in the mags, but they all use mostly water with a little alcohol mixed in.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Very cool. I notice they offer a stainless system for $200 more than the $599 system. Is that the one you run (since you run 100% methanol)?
Also, how did you arrive at the proper tune for the street? Did it take a lot of time on a dyno?
Mana, thanks for the straight info - this is new to me. I was aware of various such systems (Anderson Ford sells one), and had seen the writeups in the mags, but they all use mostly water with a little alcohol mixed in.
I use the kit I showed you in the link right there. I got it for $323 shipped!! I got the standard trunk mount kit with the boost switch. I didn't do a stainless kit. Everything works great. As far as tuning, I do all street tuning. Yes it did take a little bit of time to dial in. They use water mostly to lower EGT's more. I use methanol for the added octane. It's not as effective at lowering EGT's as water, but I am more interested in the added octane so I can run more timing and more boost, which is exactly what I am doing. I am logging zero knock on my datalogger. I did see 2* of knock retard once, but I pulled the timing out in that spot it was at about 4900 rpms. But it's a great way to add more power to a forced induction car. But remember methanol is fuel, that's why people use a mostly water mix, because it usually doesn't require tuning. 100% meth will require tuning.
$323 is a good price (they list it at $599 on the site). I was assuming you were using the trunk mount kit (I guess because you spoke of using it constantly, and the larger tank fits there easier).
Makes complete sense to me. Thanks for the info - I love learning new things.
Maybe methanol will even go down in price if they crank up more factories making it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mana4Real
I use the kit I showed you in the link right there. I got it for $323 shipped!! I got the standard trunk mount kit with the boost switch. I didn't do a stainless kit. Everything works great. As far as tuning, I do all street tuning. Yes it did take a little bit of time to dial in. They use water mostly to lower EGT's more. I use methanol for the added octane. It's not as effective at lowering EGT's as water, but I am more interested in the added octane so I can run more timing and more boost, which is exactly what I am doing. I am logging zero knock on my datalogger. I did see 2* of knock retard once, but I pulled the timing out in that spot it was at about 4900 rpms. But it's a great way to add more power to a forced induction car. But remember methanol is fuel, that's why people use a mostly water mix, because it usually doesn't require tuning. 100% meth will require tuning.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
humm they make ethanol not methanol. and it wont go down in price for like 5 years. id have to say after 5 years the e85 will be almost done for, since they will relize it aint worth the cost of corn goin up and people not using it. btw i live in Nebraska, have like 6 corn plants and i dont ever see/hear anyone using the e85
humm they make ethanol not methanol. and it wont go down in price for like 5 years. id have to say after 5 years the e85 will be almost done for, since they will relize it aint worth the cost of corn goin up and people not using it. btw i live in Nebraska, have like 6 corn plants and i dont ever see/hear anyone using the e85
"They" who? Did I say that ADM makes methanol. I might have gotten the two confused...
No. I didn't.
No problem. Methanex is the supplier for Methanol I'm aware of, and they are starting up 3 new plants right now. Methanol is being considered as a fuel source in concert with diesel and other chemical stocks. With the price of Natural Gas lagging behind that of Petroleum, the relative attractiveness of potentially inexpensive Methanol as a fuel becomes a real possiblity. ($2.50 / gallon wholesale right now).
As for the ethanol we use, it will ultimately be made from cheap cellulose, for about 60 cents a gallon (that's what the guys doing the development say- though the corn lobby twitches when they do) - making it from corn is more expensive. In 5 years, we'll be largely switching over to the cellulose source, and going large scale.
Downside is, unlike using corn as a source for making alcohol, cellulose is hard to make potable booze! Ah well, nothing is perfect.
The technology for using cellulose to cook ethanol is known, but needs to be studied for large scale production. The Swedes (and us) are starting up pilot plants right now (we have 5 kicking off, the Swedes have 1).
Ethanol from corn COULD be made much cheaper, but their main problem is finding a market for the dry grain residue that is a by-product of the process. If it becomes widely accepted as an ingredient in livestock feed, then the price of the corn-based process gets cheaper (say, about $1.25 per gallon). Right now, ethanol in the US is also a trade-barrier shaded product, ie, the world price for ethanol is a good bit cheaper, and we hit ethanol with a large tarriff as it arrives. Decades ago, this was originally meant to protect domestic producers, but its just served to stunt the business and make it dependent on tax subsidies from the feds and corn states, and an over-priced, captive market.
Corn prices are mainly going up because of a big increase in exports to places like China. The amount of ethanol consuming livestock corn (because it is that corn that they use to make ethanol) hasn't grown nearly so much as the price in corn in general. The cheaper dollar has accelerated this growth in exports, but also a rise in the commodity price.
As for the use of E85, the handling of the whole affair has been bizarre. Since the fuel is used and sold by volume, and reduces your gas mileage about 20%, if it isn't 20% less at the pump, there is no economic incentive to use it purely for transportationi.
The other reasons, which include cutting down oil imports, reducing air pollution, higher octane ratings, etc, are meaningful to many people.
Buying a fuel made in America from American raw materials by Americans has a certain appeal to me.
But I would be content to let the free market operate - if the government would but allow that.
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tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
$323 is a good price (they list it at $599 on the site). I was assuming you were using the trunk mount kit (I guess because you spoke of using it constantly, and the larger tank fits there easier).
Makes complete sense to me. Thanks for the info - I love learning new things.
Maybe methanol will even go down in price if they crank up more factories making it.
Ok, I got my kit from Import Image, Inc.... They sold it for $323 shipped. That is for the standard trunk mount kit. WITHOUT BRAIDED LINES!! I said it before, but I don't think you caught it so I thought I would say it again. I use the trunk mount kit because it's easy to see how much you have left anytime I want and I don't have to loose the function of my windshield washers I like having everything functioning. But it's also easy to mount, install, and it's a large tank!! So I don't really have to worry about filling it all the time. If I am beating on the car constantly I will go through a little over a half gallon per tank of gas.
Ok, I got my kit from Import Image, Inc.... They sold it for $323 shipped. That is for the standard trunk mount kit. WITHOUT BRAIDED LINES!! I said it before, but I don't think you caught it so I thought I would say it again. I use the trunk mount kit because it's easy to see how much you have left anytime I want and I don't have to loose the function of my windshield washers I like having everything functioning. But it's also easy to mount, install, and it's a large tank!! So I don't really have to worry about filling it all the time. If I am beating on the car constantly I will go through a little over a half gallon per tank of gas.
Doesn't seem to me that keeping the methanol topped up would be much of a chore at all, and the benefits are real. I noticed the size of the tank in the pics - not a tiny thing, like some of the others I've seen.
I bookmarked the site. Those guys have some interesting ideas.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Been using E85 for 2 years and it has many benefits if you have easy access to it. The problem with Meth is that if you tune for it and drive your car daily and the tank goes dry and you don't have a PMS Tuning unit to change you timing table when it sees a increase in Air Temp your going to break something. My MPG with 93 octane and a 535whp Twin Turbo was 20.60 mixed driving and switching to E85 even with most of my fuel tables increasing fuel by 22% and the gain of fuel/timing at 8psi I still see a average of 19.85 mpg but increased HP by 65whp. 93octane is at $2.99 and E85 is at $2.69 today. If I was putting fuel in the Mustang today I would be buying 105 octane for .10 less than 87 octane. To make life easier I am coverting my home fuel tank to store 250 gallons of E85 which you can get at discount even with delivery which when having gas delivered at your home now cost more than your local station because of rapid oil prices and delivery fees. Is ethanol worth most to Tune for ..NO. But for those with E85 access and drive your car 12k miles every 7 months it is not a bad deal.
Doesn't seem to me that keeping the methanol topped up would be much of a chore at all, and the benefits are real. I noticed the size of the tank in the pics - not a tiny thing, like some of the others I've seen.
I bookmarked the site. Those guys have some interesting ideas.
Ya, it's not hard at all. I mean I check it just by opening the trunk, so it's no big deal at all. I also like how the pump is mounted to the tank. You don't have to worry about mounting the tank anywhere. You don't really worry about this tank going dry either because it is very large. I do have programs that work without meth, but I keep my tuner at home anyways. No reason to keep hauling it around with me.
Ya, it's not hard at all. I mean I check it just by opening the trunk, so it's no big deal at all. I also like how the pump is mounted to the tank. You don't have to worry about mounting the tank anywhere. You don't really worry about this tank going dry either because it is very large. I do have programs that work without meth, but I keep my tuner at home anyways. No reason to keep hauling it around with me.
I noticed the pump mounting too. I bet not mounting it directly to the body saves any buzz or noise problems too.
Even if a driver did have to carry a hand-held tuner with them, its not a big drawback.
The new 08 Bullitts have the new sensor/dual tune setup that sense the octane of the fuel being used and switches the tune automatically...
I wonder how hard it would be to swap that setup (once it becomes part of the supply chain) into our cars?
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tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Meth 
I like having everything functioning. But it's also easy to mount, install, and it's a large tank!! So I don't really have to worry about filling it all the time. If I am beating on the car constantly I will go through a little over a half gallon per tank of gas.
