First post, massive help needed - Ford Mustang Forum

Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Apprentice
 
Nightbane88's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 57
 
First post, massive help needed

Hey y'all I just acquired a 96 GT, the CEL is on for:
P0172: too rich bank 1, no idea where to start. Idles fine, starts easy, doesn't run rough.
P1443: Canister purge valve malfunction, *again, THA EFF!?* The only thing I know of is, my filler neck gasket is torn up.
P0430: Catalyst blah blah blah y'all know the drill. Here's the thing, I can't find anything related to my issue specifically. I have a catted bbk x-pipe. Can I just use a MIL eliminator bung? Since from what I can gather, the rear o2's don't affect how it runs. Now, it does smell a tad rich. Thanks for the help. Sorry for no introduction, I neeeeeeed this thing to pass inspection. I'm already in deep doodoo with my wife over it 😂

Nightbane88 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
MACH I Member
 
90lxwhite's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,250
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbane88 View Post
Hey y'all I just acquired a 96 GT, the CEL is on for:
P0172: too rich bank 1, no idea where to start. Idles fine, starts easy, doesn't run rough.
P1443: Canister purge valve malfunction, *again, THA EFF!?* The only thing I know of is, my filler neck gasket is torn up.
P0430: Catalyst blah blah blah y'all know the drill. Here's the thing, I can't find anything related to my issue specifically. I have a catted bbk x-pipe. Can I just use a MIL eliminator bung? Since from what I can gather, the rear o2's don't affect how it runs. Now, it does smell a tad rich. Thanks for the help. Sorry for no introduction, I neeeeeeed this thing to pass inspection. I'm already in deep doodoo with my wife over it 😂
You need to address the PO172 first. You're motor is running rich which likely caused the cat to fail. Or it is just running rich and it is saying the a/f is sht. You don't want mil eliminators if you have cats. If you didn't the mil's would be ok, but since you have cats and you have that code there is something wrong somewhere upstream. P0172 is cruddy because it could be a slew of things. MAF, front 02's, injectors, etc. It stinks.

90lxwhite is online now  
post #3 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
MACH I Member
 
90lxwhite's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,250
           
You already replaced the canister purge valve and you got the code again?http://m.oreillyauto.com/h5/r/www.or...1996&make=Ford
90lxwhite is online now  
 
post #4 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Apprentice
 
Nightbane88's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 57
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90lxwhite View Post
You already replaced the canister purge valve and you got the code again?List: Canister Purge Valve/Solenoid - 1996 Ford Mustang | O'Reilly Auto Parts
No I replaced the o2 sensor #2 on bank 2. I'm gonna get some MAF safe cleaner and clean the MAF and TB today. Are there any other signs of a leaking injector? The only one I know of is hard start.
Nightbane88 is offline  
post #5 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
MACH I Member
 
90lxwhite's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,250
           
The purge valve may be causing the stink. Don't forget to disconnect the battery while you're cleaning the maf. That way it has time for the ecu to "reset."
90lxwhite is online now  
post #6 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
MACH I Member
 
90lxwhite's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,250
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbane88 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90lxwhite View Post
You already replaced the canister purge valve and you got the code again?List: Canister Purge Valve/Solenoid - 1996 Ford Mustang | O'Reilly Auto Parts
No I replaced the o2 sensor #2 on bank 2. I'm gonna get some MAF safe cleaner and clean the MAF and
TB today. Are there any other signs of a leaking injector? The only one I know of is hard start.
I kinda don't think it'd an injector really since it's not running bad.
90lxwhite is online now  
post #7 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
SHELBY GT 350 Member
 
wmburns's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 6,288
         
A couple of things. My documentation says that a P1443 is:

P1443 - Very Small Or No Purge Flow Condition

Which absolutely could be cause by a bad filler neck grommet.

Next. Since the rich condition is being called out only on one bank we should look for "possible" causes that could affect a single bank. IMO that rules out high fuel pressure. In the same vein that rules out a MAF problem.

IMO we are not looking at an exhaust leak on one side as the PCM would view that as a LEAN condition. In the same vein we are not looking at an intake vacuum leak on one side as this shows up as a LEAN.

What are the typical "causes" for a RICH condition affecting a single bank? What comes to mind:
  • Bad O2 sensor on one bank
  • uneven injector flow rates between the cylnders
  • Misfire
  • Base motor timing. Think timing chain slip from one bank to the other.
  • other base motor problem such as leaking valves.

I am a big believer in Occam's Razor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

The car runs well. So it follows that the PCM's fuel control (the O2 sensors) are working well. While I believe this should be confirmed it makes sense on the surface. But we know that the motor IS running rich because of the SMELL of fuel.

Has any recent motor work been done? Back to the fact the motor runs well. IMO that would tend to rule out a base motor timing issue.

Sooooooooooooo if looking for the simplest single possible "cause" that matches all of the symptoms. Drum roll................

How about a clogged single injector? Or it's cousin an injector with excessive flow? IMO the lean injector makes slightly more sense as the O2 sensor will see the air from the lean cylinder and the PCM will respond by adding fuel. But the PCM can only increase fuel on the entire bank. This results in way more fuel going into the exhaust. The DTC is set when the PCM feels it's no long able to control the Air fuel mixture using it's feedback methods.

I personally have had great success using InjectorRX.com cleaning and flow test service. Once cleaned and tested they are as good as new. Cheaper than new. The best part is the report that list what the injectors flowed before and after testing. IF you keep track of which cylinder each injector came from this could make it possible to confirm the repair.
Nightbane88 likes this.

2003 GT Convertible (sold & missed)
2000 GT coupe (Craigslist project. Fixed. Now my DD). Windsor to Romeo swap.
wmburns is offline  
post #8 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Apprentice
 
Nightbane88's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 57
 
Holy crap detailed! Thanks for that!

AFAIK the car doesn't seem to have a miss. Nor does it SEEM to be running rough, to me at least. This is however my first mustang, but I know how they sound. And it sounds healthy. However, in 5th, at highway speeds, 60-70, I can't tell if it's just grumbling or if there is a touch of a miss. I'll try to take a video today and upload it. It revs quick, pulls decent, (not that I'm railing on it all the time, just slow roll on of power).
I'm going to try a seafoam treatment this afternoon. It's my daily so I can't send the injectors off. I've had really good luck with seafoam in the past, especially when used right. I traded a $2k bike for it so all in all I'm not complaining. (Please ignore the plastic bag, it was a picked up by the skirt.)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0763.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	1.09 MB
ID:	566409  
Nightbane88 is offline  
post #9 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago
PONY Member
 
40th GT's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Posts: 421
 
There are ways to clean injectors at home with a syringe and carb cleaner. Look up some youtube videos.

As for the p0172 code, swap your front o2 sensors left to right (by removing the sensor from the harness not just by unscrewing the sensor from the bung and moving the whole assembly to the other side), and see if the code changes to p0175. If that happens you know for sure the bank 1 front o2 sensor is bad.

If that checks out you may have an exhaust leak ahead of the front o2 sensor (i.e. leaking exhaust manifold gasket). Exhaust leaks behind the sensor would cause a lean condition which would show similar symptoms as a vacuum leak. One way to test this is by running Seafoam through a vacuum line and see if any smoke is coming out of the exhaust/intake gaskets.

If that checks out it may be something internal like wmburns mentioned. But start with the simple stuff first.

High flow cats can still cause cat efficiency codes (p0420, p0430, etc) to come up since they are passing more exhaust through than stock cats would. When you address p0175 and the cat code is still there, you may need MIL eliminators to fix the issue.
Nightbane88 likes this.

2007 Mustang GT/CS coupe
Procharged--cammed--Kurgan tuned--coilover suspension
40th GT is offline  
post #10 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Apprentice
 
Nightbane88's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 57
 
Did some work tonight. Cleaned the MAF and TB with MAF safe cleaner. Found a small rubber hose connecting to the front of the intake that was rotted, replaced it. Did a seafoam treatment twice. And holy hell, the smoke. The tank was on ~1/8, put a can of seafoam in there and topped it to 1/2. Replaced the filler neck gasket (WHAT A B****!!!). Disconnected the battery, so after 50-100 miles I'll report back. I did notice something odd... while it was running I was siting at the back of the car, and the idle dipped ever so slightly. I heard, a *faint* drop in the sound of the fuel pump. Almost like it got bogged down. The car still runs great, maybe a little better. I took a couple of videos, both cold start, hot start after sitting for ~30 minutes, and a couple of idle videos. I'll upload them and post when I can. As of right now, the exhaust just smells like... well, exhaust. I took a couple of pics of the hose in question. And another picture of the car just because, well.... I'm in love. (Seriously, no love smiley on this forum?????)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0779.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	1.00 MB
ID:	566481   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0778.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	562.2 KB
ID:	566489   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0780.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	1.06 MB
ID:	566497  
Nightbane88 is offline  
post #11 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Apprentice
 
Nightbane88's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 57
 
Well that was quick. Back to autozone I go. Tomorrow morning.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0784.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	810.2 KB
ID:	566505  

96 Black GT *Crowd Control*
Nightbane88 is offline  
post #12 of 96 (permalink) Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Apprentice
 
Nightbane88's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 57
 
Cold start...

Idle after cleaning

96 Black GT *Crowd Control*
Nightbane88 is offline  
post #13 of 96 (permalink) Old 2 Weeks Ago
SHELBY GT 350 Member
 
wmburns's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 6,288
         
ForScan ODB2 scanner w ELM327 USB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbane88 View Post
I did notice something odd... while it was running I was siting at the back of the car, and the idle dipped ever so slightly.
There are TONS of reasons this could happen from turning the steering wheel, AC clutch engaging, or PCM calling for an EVAP purge.

If you are really interested in locating something like this having an ODB2 scanner with data logging capabilities is a must. Do you have a laptop? Do you have $30? If so consider getting an ELM327 USB dongle and the ForScan software.

Here's some information I have posted previously.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...slow-down.html

Here's some additional information on how to trouble shoot Idle and IAC issues.

Ford Mustang Forum - View Single Post - Is your mustang stumbling, dieing at idle or idling rough?

2003 GT Convertible (sold & missed)
2000 GT coupe (Craigslist project. Fixed. Now my DD). Windsor to Romeo swap.
wmburns is offline  
post #14 of 96 (permalink) Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Apprentice
 
Nightbane88's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Location: Winston Salem
Posts: 57
 
I'm not so much concerned about the idle dip as I am the CEL. I'm getting ready to go to the parts store and have them read it again and HOPE it's only the p430. Then I can get an o2 bung

96 Black GT *Crowd Control*
Nightbane88 is offline  
post #15 of 96 (permalink) Old 2 Weeks Ago
MACH I Member
 
90lxwhite's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,250
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbane88 View Post
I'm not so much concerned about the idle dip as I am the CEL. I'm getting ready to go to the parts store and have them read it again and HOPE it's only the p430. Then I can get an o2 bung
It's not. It's gonna be the same. What about an evap solenoid? Didn't you get a code for that?

90lxwhite is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a VALID email address for yourself, otherwise you will not receive the necessary confirmation email needed to confirm, validate and activate your new AFM member account.

Failure to provide a VALID email address, will result in the cancellation of your new AFM member account registration.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome