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Unread 12-29-2008   #1 (permalink)
green96droptop is offline Rookie


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Any Suggestions? Lincoln mark VIII swap

I noticed Mark VIII engines are cheap on ebay. For under $1,000 you can get a low mile comlete engine and tranny with the harness and computer. I know there aluminum block 4V like the cobras and have 290hp 15 less than then the cobras which is probally due to a restrictive exuast. Does anyone know if the have forged cranks and 6 bolt mains? I really think a PI swap is a waste of time and money for 45hp, so I' looking forward to hearing some feedback on this idea.
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Unread 12-30-2008   #2 (permalink)
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unless you have 5 grand to spend on this swap, dont even bother. for 5 grand, or even less, you can have the pi swap and a kenne bell blower. so, for 5 grand you can iether have a 450 HP beastly 2v, or you can have a 290-300 HP 4v. however, if you decide to do the swap regardless, there are some things for you to consider. the mark viii engine is NOT a cobra engine. the mark viii has a 6 bolt crank(not forged), and some pretty mild cams. also, the intake is different. i beleive that with a port and polish the mark viii heads will be the same as cobra "B" port heads. so, basicaly the only thing that is the same between the cobra and mark viii is the block.
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Unread 01-01-2009   #3 (permalink)
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I knew there had to be a reason why these motors were so cheap. Thanks.
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Unread 01-01-2009   #4 (permalink)
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hey man, if its really what you want to do, and you have the money, dont let me stop you from building a 4 valve. ive looked high and low for a cheap setup that would alow me to buy a mark viii engine and build it to cobra spec. i just havnt found it yet.
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Unread 01-01-2009   #5 (permalink)
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Thumbs up (Mark VIII) Why is a Mark VIII donor a good alternative.

(Mark VIII) - Why is a Mark VIII donor a good alternative to a 4.6L Mustang donor?

Quote:
If cost is a limiting factor, there is no 4.6 DOHC Modular engine donor choice less expensive than a 1994-1998 Lincoln Mark VIII, especially if you plan to run the desirable IRS rear suspension.
The SOHC Mustangs can be a worthy alternative…but…at 2 to 4 times the initial cost of most Mark VIII donors.
With the SOHC Mustang you get a cast iron block that is heavier than the DOHC aluminum Teksid block found on the Mark VIII… plus a modular SOHC engine produces about 50 HP less than a Mark VIII DOHC….
With the Mark VIII you also get the highly desirable…some would say the “best” rear street suspension for an FFR. Everything you need, except the shorter axles, comes on the Mark. The shorter axles are supplied in the FFR IRS kit. The IRS is judged to be a more satisfying street suspension by those who have built both the IRS and solid rear axle cars. A search on IRS will find MANY posts from builders who have stated their preference for IRS handling and ride quality, or have stated that their next cars will have IRS suspension. The straight axle can be made to achieve excellent skid pad numbers, but cannot offer the same ride quality as the IRS. The money saved by going the Mark VIII donor route can effectively pay for the IRS option when ordering your FFR kit.
With the Mark VIII you get the best of both: the more desirable DOHC engine and the IRS…all for substantially less money than ANY Modular Mustang donor. There have been numerous Mark VIII donor cars bought for $535-$1,000. The least expensive SOHC Mustang donor I am aware of was $1800 with many closer to $3K. Late model Mustang DOHC donors are typically $3500 to $9000 or higher. And all except the high dollar Cobra SVT lack the desirable IRS.
For many, the Mark VIII is becoming the donor of choice where good ride, handling, and excellent power for minimal cost is a priority.
In a nutshell you get a DOHC with substantially more horsepower than the best SOHC Mustang and only 15-20 HP less than the 96-98 DOHC Cobra Mustang motor. You get an aluminum IRS rear carrier. You get a radiator and Fan Assembly that is superior to the mustang. You get a car that has not been dogged like many Mustang donors and has likely seen better routine service and maintenance. But the real killer...is that you can find a 50K to 80K mile Mark VIII donor for less than $1,000. Cheaper than even a SOHC Mustang donor...! It is also cheap enough to allow you to buy more new or rebuilt components as you build. Something that becomes harder to cost justify when you spend several thousand more for the donor upfront.
You can buy a good running moderate to low mileage Mark VIII for less than $1000. I have seen one sell for $535 with 76K miles.
The Lincoln interior, wheels, tires, sunroof, electrical components, climate controls, doors, trunk, glass, et al...can be sold for far more than the cost of the donor Mark VIII... What you sell off the Mark VIII will effectively provide a 280-290 HP DOHC Engine, wiring harness, radiator and shroud, transmission, gages, and complete IRS for FREE...!
With what you save over buying a comparable 4.6L DOHC Cobra with equivalent mileage, you can buy NEW gas tank, sending unit, aluminum radiator, spindles, brakes, etc. and still come out ahead. For MANY items I would prefer to have new or rebuilt over a used Mustang donor part anyway.
For the non critical Mustang donor parts where used is as good as new...the local Pick-N-Pull will supply the odd items that can't be used from the Lincoln.
Plus much of the small hardware is common to both donors, and in some cases the Mark VIII parts are superior to the Mustang. Case in point is the radiator shroud and cooling fan. Many Mustang guys seek out the Mark VIII fan and shroud for better cooling.
Keep in mind also that the Mark has the best overdrive automatic that Ford has ever built. With a simple "J" modification and a 2800-3200 stall converter, this combination in many roles is superior to a manual transmission. Don't sell the 4R70W short...it is an excellent trans well suited for high performance...and it comes standard... in the Mark VIII.
Further, most Mark VIII's will be better maintained and far less abused than a Cobra Mustang.
Until the prices of Donor Mark VIII's start climbing...I would contend you can build a combination of Mark VIII Donor car with MANY new parts added for LESS than the $3500-$9000 now being quoted as the going purchase price for 4.6L DOHC Mustang donors.
With the Mustang donor you end up utilizing far more USED parts to keep cost down because of the much higher initial purchase price. Although you can still recoup a major portion of this cost by reselling parts you don't need, you are still into a car that initially cost 4 to 9 times what a Mark VIII will cost. With the Mark VIII it simply becomes much easier to justify buying more new parts.
If you are definitely going DOHC and IRS...the choice is clearly in favor of the Mark VIII.

What Parts can I use From a Mark VIII Donor?

Over the past several months, I have received a number of questions asking what parts From a Mark VIII donor car can be used in the building of an FFR Modular 4.6L DOHC.
What I have tried to do is to provide the following overview of what will… won’t… or… “may” work with modification. In addition I have added any helpful comments regarding each part.

The following is a list of 1993-1998 Mark VIII donor parts that CAN be used:

The 4.6L DOHC Engine. Many people do not realize that the 1993 Mark VIII was the first all aluminum DOHC 4.6 modular engine produced by Ford. It was the forerunner of the 96-98 Cobra DOHC, which was simply a refined version of the Mark VIII engine, designed for a lighter Mustang with manual transmission. The early Mark 4.6 is rated at 280 HP compared to the later Mark rated at 290 HP. However, don't let the 290 HP of the later Marks fool you. The higher rating was due to an improved exhaust system on the later Lincolns, while the late intake manifold is actually more restrictive and less desirable than the early Mark intake manifold. By comparison, the 96-98 Cobra is rated at 305 HP. This slight power increase was due to an improved intake used on the early Cobra for use with a manual transmission. The early 94-96 Mark uses an intake slightly more restrictive than the 96-98 Cobra intake but less restrictive than the later 97-98 Mark intake. The exhaust cams on both the Mark VIII and early Cobra are identical. The Mark intake cams have about 10 deg less duration with the same lift, to improve low end torque for use with an automatic transmission. With an equal exhaust system, all three engines are very close to each other in output. The Mark uses a different oil pan, with a side reservoir, but either OEM oil pan should be replaced with the much superior Champ pan and baffle.
The 4R70W Automatic Transmission. The best automatic transmission Ford has used in a passenger car. Some would argue it is the best automatic transmission ANY manufacturer has used in a passenger car. However, internal improvements were made after 1998 making the transmission even more durable. If you plan to use the 4R70W and yours is in need of a rebuild, have your transmission shop re-build to the 2001 and later specifications. Or use the original transmission as a core for a later model 4R70W.
Since the Mark VIII never offered a manual transmission, those wanting to convert to manual will have to locate the transmission, bell housing, clutch and flywheel from other sources. “FasterPatrick” on the forum can provide details as he has made the conversion on his car.
The IRS rear Suspension.The Mark VIII donor provides most of the necessary the IRS components. FFR will supply the rest with the IRS package option. Go with the IRS and you will never regret it. Many builders of the 3 and 4 link rear ends have stated that their next cars will have IRS. The IRS is a better match for a “high performance” but comfortable street car.
IRS center section. The Mark VIII uses an aluminum carrier as opposed to the T-Bird or Mustang which uses a cast iron carrier. It is lighter yet strong enough for a serious street car. The one down side is that the Mark VIII uses an open rear end. I have yet to see or hear of a Traction Loc being available as a factory option. However, a standard 8.8 Traction Loc carrier can be installed easily. Just be aware that the IRS requires a different pair of side spider gears to accept axle retaining clips. Side gears for a T-Bird Traction Loc can be substituted or the original side gears can be machined to accept these clips.
Engine and transmission Mounts. The factory engine and transmission mounts can be used, however it is strongly recommended that aftermarket Polyurethane mounts be used to minimize engine movement. Such mounts can be bought from eBay for as little as $79 a set for the engine mounts and $29 for the transmission.
Mark VIII Donor wiring harness and ECM. The primary contribution of the wiring harness is the wire itself, the connectors, engine and transmission power control modules and sensors. The Mark VIII supplies what you need just as well as a Mustang donor.
ABS. The complete Mark VIII ABS system can be used. It is compatible with the Mark VIII power master cylinder or the early Mustang 96-98 Hydroboost.
Rear brake calipers, rotors and hubs. The rear Mark hubs with 5 x 4.25” wheel pattern can be used and re-drilled to the Mustang 5 x 4.5” wheel pattern. One of the forum members offers this service. Just do a search. The rear Mark VIII calipers are actually a better part than the Mustang rear caliper as they have a larger piston with more clamping force. New Mark VIII rotors can be used or larger diameter Mustang Cobra rotors can be used after fabricating a small caliper mounting bracket.
Radiator and Electric Fan / Shroud. The Mark VIII radiator is close enough to the Mustang in size to make using it feasible. In my case, the radiator was damaged so I bought a new Mustang radiator online for about $100. The fan and shroud from the Mark VIII is actually superior to the Mustang and is highly sought after by Mustang owners and off road 4 wheel drive vehicle owners.
The Driveshaft. The Mark VIII aluminum driveshaft can be shortened and used, but because the aluminum shaft is highly sought after by Mustang owners, it makes more sense to sell the Mark shaft for $100-$150 and buy a new shortened steel drive shaft from a vendor such as Breeze for $275.
The fuel filler neck and gas cap. Since only the upper portion is cut and used from the Mustang filler neck, The Mark can supply this portion of the filler tube just as well as a Mustang. Note that the new LeMans Gas Cap supplied by FFR no longer needs the upper Mustang filler neck, so this part on newer kits can be disregarded.

The following are Mark VIII parts that CANNOT be used without major modification and should be replaced with Mustang components:

Fuel Tank. The Mark has a different shape and size that is not adaptable to the FFR tank location. New Mustang fuel tanks can be bought off eBay for less than $100.
Front Spindles are totally different. Should be replaced with 94-95 Mustang spindles and hubs. If you are planning to run ABS, be sure to get spindles having the ABS rings installed.
Front Brake Calipers and rotors . Plan to buy new Mustang rotors and rebuilt calipers . Either late GT or the larger Cobra rotors with aluminum PBR dual piston calipers will work well.
Front Lower Control arms. Will not interchange. Order replacement M-3075-D LCA’s from Ford Racing for as little as $137 a set with new high durometer bushings and new high quality ball joints. Or the tubular arms from FFR for about $500.
Automatic Pedal Box. It is shaped completely different than a Mustang pedal box. However, I found an automatic 94 Mustang pedal box on eBay for $.01 plus shipping. $15.01 total. Something to note is that the automatic Mustang parts go CHEAP on eBay. If planning to run a manual transmission then a Mustang manual pedal box will be needed. An identical 94 Mustang Manual pedal box sold for $26 from the same seller.
Power Steering Rack. The Mark VIII rack is approximately 10 " shorter overall than a 94 Mustang rack. In my case I found a Brand New 94 Ford Mustang PS unit on eBay for $85…!! However, the Mark VIII rack may serve well as a core if you buy a rebuilt Mustang unit from your local auto parts store.

The following are Mark VIII parts that “May” be used with some adaptation or modification by the builder.

Accelerator Pedal. The Mark rubber pedal is slightly different but the assembly will work. Keep in mind that the Mustang gas pedal has to be modified and MANY do not like the modified Mustang pedal when done. A better solution is to buy an aftermarket pedal for $100 and sidestep the issues of modifying and using either OEM pedal.
Master Cylinder / Hydro Booster. It looks like the Mark PS mastercylinder may fit, but it is larger than the Hydro booster and may interfere with the FFR chassis. I have not tried to trial fit one. In any event, a used 96-98 Mustang Hydroboost can be bought for as little as $35 from one of the yards on Car-Part.com
Instrument Panel Gauges (modified similarly as the Mustang instrument panel) It appears that some if not all of the Mark VIII gages can be made to work when cut and modified as called out in the builder manual. However, I have yet to convert these gages. The modification process would be similar.

Alternate Parts Sources
Keep in mind that MANY parts you want will be remanufactured parts from Napa or AutoZone, etc., where you can return used Mark VIII cores when buying the rebuilt Mustang parts. Many stores don’t care, just as long as a rebuildable core is received, although it would be best to first discuss with the store to insure they are agreeable. This allows you to buy many needed Mustang parts in rebuilt condition, using the Mark donor for cores. This is especially helpful for items such as brake calipers.

I Need Your Help and Input
I have tried to be as accurate as possible, but please use this information at your own risk. Keep in mind that this guide is an ongoing document that will be revised with new information added as we all learn more about using the Mark VIII as an alternate donor to the Mustang. I would ask those of you who have chosen Mark VIII donors for your builds to PM me on any useful information with details that I can add to this list to make it more accurate and more helpful to other new builders.

Kerry

Last edited by tripleblack; 03-24-2009 at 04:52 PM.
 
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Unread 01-04-2009   #6 (permalink)
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Default MARK VIII swap

Thanks for the great info. It's great to get some detailed info from someone that knows what he' talking about. I have 125,000 miles on my motor and I really dont wanna do a PI swap since I'd still have a underpowered motor with high milage. I know where I can get a 96 Mark VIII with 23,000 miles for $1,000.00 It's hit hard in the rear so I'm sure there's damage to the irs but I would still like to attempt the motor swap. If the motor and tranny where pulled complete what would it take to make it work in my 96 automatic? would I use the engine harness from the mark? Would anything need to be added, deleted or spliced? Would the exuast bolt up? What about the computer? I'd like to learn as much as possible about the swap before I do it so there is'nt anything that would cause me to have to drive my wife's neon to work because I stumpped. Thanks again for the great info.
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Unread 01-04-2009   #7 (permalink)
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I would definitely buy the entire car for that price, and pull as many parts as necessary from the donor.

The PCM would be a good idea, since the unit in your Mustang won't know what to think about being hooked to the dohc. Swap in the entire engine, tranny, wiring harness (segments that go into and out of the PCM) and pcm.

Some imagination will be needed to get everything to work, and you'll need to add some hose here and there to plug the systems in, but it should work.

Is your Mustang an auto tranny? If not, you will have to swap in the necessary parts to fit the AOD from the Mark VIII.

The IRS is pretty tough, and MIGHT have survived. This would make the swap much more unique, of course.
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Unread 03-17-2009   #8 (permalink)
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Default 4.6 DOHC Swap

Engine:
I have a Lincoln 4.6 Mark 8 engine, and a computer, however no harness just stubs. I understand the computer for the Mark 8 is fairly complex, even the intake manifold has two intake ports controlled by the TPS, they do not open the second set until required, for drivability reasons. (Not sure how this occurs)

I only want to run the wiring and sensors necessary to make the car run efficiently, not start into the business of changing things that may not need changing.

Anyone have intimate knowledge of the harness or how to determine what you might use or discard?

Trans/5spd:
I have a 2006 5spd from a Modular Mustang, the bell housing should work, but is the clutch and such from the Mustang going to work? The flywheel is the same as the Cobra, if I read the above information correctly. Any insight on this?
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Unread 03-17-2009   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo78 View Post
Engine:
I have a Lincoln 4.6 Mark 8 engine, and a computer, however no harness just stubs. I understand the computer for the Mark 8 is fairly complex, even the intake manifold has two intake ports controlled by the TPS, they do not open the second set until required, for drivability reasons. (Not sure how this occurs)

I only want to run the wiring and sensors necessary to make the car run efficiently, not start into the business of changing things that may not need changing.

Anyone have intimate knowledge of the harness or how to determine what you might use or discard?
I was going to attempt how to on the stock harness and changed my mind.. I was told of a company who took all the guess work out and have a plug and play harness for the conversion. I just ordered mine and should be here in a couple of days. I will do a write up on how to install the harness. Here is the info:




Early Ford 4.6 V-8 Modular Engine: This engine was introduced in the 1991 big passenger cars and the 1993 Mark VIII. This is Ford's new modular design engine which can utilize some of the same parts to create a lower horsepower engine used in other Ford models. The 4.6 engine in the Mark VIII utilizes a thirty two valve, double over head cam design to create 280 horsepower while the 4.6 in other Ford models is a single overhead cam engine that produces 205 horsepower. The Mark VIII engine has intake manifold runner control solenoids which operate plates which are closed below 3000 RPM so the engine is running on two valves per cylinder. With no air delivered to the secondary intake valves, economy and emissions are improved at low RPM. Above 3000 the plates open increasing air delivered to each cylinder for more power on demand. The 4.6 engine has two ignition coils with each coil firing four cylinders. Depending on the year, the AOD, AODE and 4R70W transmissions were used behind this engine.

Mustang 4.6 Modular (2V and 4V Cobra) Engine: The Mustang first saw the 4.6 modular motor in 1996. Although it is very similar to the 4V Mark VIII, this engine is calibrated differently and the computer has advanced anti-theft. As a result, we will need to reprogram your ECM to remove the anti-theft but while we are at it we can modify the ECM for aftermarket fuel pump and electric fan use and delete control of selected emission controls (if your local laws allow). We can supply a harness for the 2 valve and 4 valve, automatic or 5/6 speed. Please call or e-mail us for more information.
Other/Late Ford 4.6 and 5.4 V8 Modular Engine: As with the above Mustang 4.6, we can wire all late model 4.6 and 5.4 engines 1999-2003. We will have to reprogram your ECM. See below.
The early 4.6's had a coil pack for each bank of cylinders but with the 1997 passenger cars and the 1999 Mustang, Ford went to coil on plug (COP). The Detail Zone can wire up all late model 4.6 and 5.4 engines.

If you have questions please give us a call or e-mail us.
visit The Detail Zone

Last edited by tripleblack; 03-24-2009 at 04:51 PM.
 
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Unread 03-24-2009   #10 (permalink)
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Default 4.6 32v

Thanks for the link, they have several options for this engine. I look forward to your response to the installation of this wireing harness. I am ready.
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Unread 03-24-2009   #11 (permalink)
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I would agree that donor 94-98 Mark viii engines are relatively inexpensive, but there are some statements in this article which I find fault with:

"The SOHC Mustangs can be a worthy alternative…but…at 2 to 4 times the initial cost of most Mark VIII donors."

Price a new PI 2v 4.6 engine vs a new Mark viii 4v - they are essentially the same price. Used 2v 4.6 engines are easy to find and vary (as do all used parts) in price, but I have seen many that run between $600 and $1200. Ditto for Mark viii engines, which however are relatively rare and harder to find. For a Mark viii to be "2 to 4 times" less expensive, it would be running in price around $150 - $300 (at the low end) or $300 - $600 (at the high end). Perhaps what was intended was a statment that the Mark viii DOHC used engines run a lot cheaper than Mustang-source DOHC engines, which I would agree is usually true.

"With the SOHC Mustang you get a cast iron block that is heavier than the DOHC aluminum Teksid block found on the Mark VIII… plus a modular SOHC engine produces about 50 HP less than a Mark VIII DOHC…."

The comment about the lower weight of the Teksid block is accurate - and they are fine castings. There are Explorer aluminum block 4.6 motors, btw. But the Mark viii's came in 2 flavors, one that was rated at 280hp and 285tq, and one that was 290hp and 290tq. This compares to the 99 and up SOHC's at 260hp and 300+ tq. If the comparison includes some modifications to increase the Mark viii's specs, then the question would become moot, given that performing similar mods on the SOHC would also increase output. A more accurate statement would be that the Mark viii makes either 20 or 30 more hp at the flywheel than the 99-04 2v 4.6, and of course makes even MORE than 50+ hp compared to the 96-98 Mustang 4.6.

"With the Mark VIII you also get the highly desirable…some would say the “best” rear street suspension for an FFR. Everything you need, except the shorter axles, comes on the Mark. The shorter axles are supplied in the FFR IRS kit. The IRS is judged to be a more satisfying street suspension by those who have built both the IRS and solid rear axle cars. A search on IRS will find MANY posts from builders who have stated their preference for IRS handling and ride quality, or have stated that their next cars will have IRS suspension. The straight axle can be made to achieve excellent skid pad numbers, but cannot offer the same ride quality as the IRS. The money saved by going the Mark VIII donor route can effectively pay for the IRS option when ordering your FFR kit."

This would be a good spot to ask, "How much?" Also, I believe this is somewhat simplified - there is more to performing the swap than just changing out the axles.

"With the Mark VIII you get the best of both: the more desirable DOHC engine and the IRS…all for substantially less money than ANY Modular Mustang donor. There have been numerous Mark VIII donor cars bought for $535-$1,000. The least expensive SOHC Mustang donor I am aware of was $1800 with many closer to $3K. Late model Mustang DOHC donors are typically $3500 to $9000 or higher. And all except the high dollar Cobra SVT lack the desirable IRS."

I have heard this for years, and have been curious, so I just did an AutoTrader search within 100 miles of my zip code, and got zero hits for cheap Lincoln Mark VIII's. A global search DID find 1 located over 300 miles from my home with over 152,000 miles on the ticker for $1895, which for an intact, running car was really not too bad (though it would have to be trailered, due to no exhaust). After that one, the cars rose in price rapidly, with a handful listed nationwide in the $2k range, and many more at $3k and above.

Its apparent, however, that these cars CAN be had for cheap, though with high miles. It would seem that their air suspensions frequently fail with age, and is expensive to keep on the road, perhaps explaining some of their lack of resale value!

I would say that this would rate a call to your local junkyards, though, if you are considering this route. Keep your eye pealed for one of those 80,000 mile creampuffs going for less than $1000 mentioned in the article. I didn't find one near me, but maybe you will be more fortunate.

Overall this is NOT a bad article. Some of the facts are a little loose (not bad - most sellers commit worse in the aftermarket), though imo the IRS swap is more troublesome than it is worth in the Mustang world. There are always exceptions, however, and if you are that exceptional individual who really craves a Mustang with an IRS, you probably already know whether or not the cost makes sense to you.
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Unread 04-01-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Default 4.6 four cam

I did find a 4.6 Lincoln engine with less than 34K on it for $750. reason being they had 29 of them, and did not know how to market them to the hot rodders.
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Unread 01-12-2010   #13 (permalink)
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Default I'm not sure if this was asked already but...

I have a 2004 3.9L


My dad has a 1996 thunderbird with the mark 8 4.6 dohc installed. He recently got himself a 2005 GT and will possibly be putting the thunderbird's engine in my mustang come this summer.

I am wondering if it is possible for me to keep my mustang's transmission or would I need to take the transmission out of the thunderbird as well.
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Unread 04-07-2010   #14 (permalink)
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the one thing about the lincoln mark viii suspension is that it is air ride suspension. there are air bags that change the ride height according to your speed. if you go with the swap you'll have to find the conversion for the airbags (around $300+), or find one that has already had it done. this air ride system runs off an air pump in the engine bay, most of the reasons of failure is cracked air lines or bad valves which are expensive to replace, the airbags are very durable. This is probably one of the reasons why the front suspension is not transferable into a mustang (due to the air bags etc). One question i have is will the drive shaft from the mark viii fit a mustang, i see no reason why it wouldn't. The transmissions are very good in those cars but the earlier models 93-95 have a tendency to shudder in 2nd, it is highly recommended that you get it rebuilt or find another one if your not gonna go with a manual tranny.
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Unread 05-03-2010   #15 (permalink)
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what parts can I get to upgrade my 1997 lincoln continental 4.6l dohc - 32 valve with front wheel drive so it will have rwhp? And tell me what's cutting my serpentine belt. Somebody says it's the motor mount. But I don't believe that. So if anybody has had some experience with this problem let me know. allcylindershot
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