My gains were only based on stock numbers. When I say stock I mean the filter was obviously K&N and there was a trimmed snorkle being used.
However, my car was FAR from stock in other areas....
Long tubes/ high flow cats - pulleys - gears - chip - MAF - Wires -
So in all fairness I may have gained more than a 100% stock car simply because my car would utilize the extra air being forced into the intake at higher speeds.
I've got the Cervini ram air hood on my 2002 (chosen for looks, not function). I like the way it looks, and it replaces the stock GT scoop which (in the hilly country I drive in) often formed a visual obstruction. The new hood has better visibility.
I've observed a decrease in operating temp's since installing the hood and bumper (cervini hood does not fit with stock bumper), which has a larger opening funneling air to the radiator. It is quite possible that the cooler operating temps are the result of the new bumper rather than the hood.
Ram air has always been a rather strange art, and like many aerodynamic devices added to cars, non-functional until very high speeds are achieved (the vestigial wings on most new mustangs spring to mind, much less the huge chunks of fiberglass on most ricers).
Finally, I've noticed the motor seems slightly stronger in 5th gear on the interstate (I can discern no difference in any other gears, even at 100mph in 4th for instance).
I didn't buy the "ram air kit" that would have converted the air path from the hood slots to the intake (currently I have cai setup from inside fenderwell). It was pricey and, as demonstrated by the discussion here, likely nothing more than extra weight to haul around.
FLEX mentioned it and Kulak attempted to set him straight about the windchill thing but I don't think the basic point was made.
Windchill only affects living organisms like humans, animals, etc. Inanimate objects are in no way shape or form affected by windchill.
Windchill is what temperature it "feels" to your skin because you skin is evaporating heat constantly. Add moisture from our sweat or some other means and the effects of windchill increase (same thing when the humidity is high on a cold day...it "feels" colder, but the actual termperature IS EXACTLY THE SAME).
On the whole ram air thing and the mach shaker...it just looks good as hell regardless of if it works. just my opinion.
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Don't work? why do F1, and Pro Stock cars use them?
Hi,
These race car classes both use large scoops that are an integral part of the induction system and both gain significant HP from the scoops. As a matter of fact Honda or Toyota (can't recall who), pulled out of CART or IRL over the intake scoop rules for their engines that they felt put them at a disadvantage to competitions engine package.
Formula One class race cars are the fastest of the fast with cars that are at the pinnacle of development in all disciplines. There are no other race car class in the world that can keep up with an F1 car, they have it all, speed, cornering, acceleration (all directions), endurance etc. and they ALL use a large drag inducing scoop to help produce the incredible HP that an F1 engine needs to push all the air over the wings and body works. the scoops aren't there because they don't work.
The HUGE scoops on NHRA Pro Stock class cars produce a HUGE amount of drag and that drag must be off set with HP or they wouldn't run them. Trust me NHRA national event Pro Stock fields are so tight that if you spit on the car you may slow it down! The whole qualified 16 car Pro Stock field at an NHRA national event can be separated by 0.1 and LESS and these guys are not stupid no matter what that guy with the fancy explanations may have you think.
These scoops clearly help the engines make more power than they can produce without them. If they didn't work they would use them because they produce so much drag and add weight.
Just stating the OBVIOUS.
Cheers/Chip
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Windchill effects everything not just living things. It could be minus 20 on a winter day with a 60km/h wind. The temperature is the equivalent of minus 35 as a result. I learned this the hard way 15 years ago and experienced something called frostbite as a result. Same principle as a fan in summer. It is still 35*C but the fan moves the air cooling down the person standing in front of it. Drive in a car on a 35*C day or a motorcycle. Where will you be cooler? The cooling effect is irrefutable.
This is not just theory. I have actually tested this with a Raytech infrared thermometer. The incoming colder air reduces the temperature of the engine components as you drive. The more isolation from heat there is, the cooler the components become and heat the incoming air less.
Now some would say it can't make that much of a difference but to the contrare, imagine running along and then cutting through a sauna. Your in there for only a couple of seconds, but the air inside is considerably hotter and you breathe it in as you pass through. How are you going to feel. Just as good as fresh cold air. Don't think so.
Chip, .........your instincts are right because the science supports it. I'll confess after reading that article sometime ago I frowned at it as yet another source of misinformation you find on the net (don't believe everything you read) and was tempted to rebut all his claims but the time and effort involved to do that just isn't worth it. However, it bugs me that my AFM brethren may walk away believing this crap and an attempt to set the record straight is in order.
As a practicing aerodynamist flight testing military fighters for the last 20 years I can tell you, in short, ram air can and will improve the performance of an engine.
At the very minimum the (relatively) cooler (non-engine compartment warm air) means increased air density and thus more air mass flow (more air in a given volume) is received into the cylinder. That's why your engine always seems to perform better on cold days. Secondly, it's about total pressure into the engine which means static pressure plus dynamic pressure and since dynamic pressure increases with the square of the velocity, a few mph will increase the total pressure to the intake. Any kid who has stuck his head out of a moving car and opens his mouth knows his lungs will fill up quicker than if he just opens his mouth inside the cabin with all the windows rolled up. Remember that an engine is just a big pump and the greater the pressure differential that exists when that intake valve opens to suck in air during the downstroke of the piston the more air you will capture in the cylinder. The idea behind superchargers is to capture and compress the air such that a larger quantity of air can be feed into a given (and fixed) cylinder volume. Increased air density (bigger "charge") + plus fuel = bigger bang.
If he was trying say that ram air can't give you near the boost (increase in pressure over ambient) as a supercharger that is definitely a true statement. But to claim that "...ram air won't improve performance" or "Ram air is a Myth" is total bunk! What's mythical is the science behind his claims. Ram air can and will benefit engine performance. Sure it's not as huge as a supercharger but non-the-less it is an increase and NOT a total waste of time. It's just physics and it sure ain't rocket science.
Striker,
While your info is definitely welcomed in this discussion, I have to ask you something. Do you actually get to fly the big beasties? If so, what have you flown? As someone who has never even been in a plane yet, I dream of a backseat ride in a supersonic fighter with an ultimate dream of space flight. Sorry to take away from the topic at hand.
Yes indeed I have experienced that oppurtunity. My top 5 would have to be the F-18, F-16, T-38, Su-29, Tornado, and of course the ultimate Mustang, the P-51. Twenty years in Flight Test plus being fortunate enough to spend a year in Test Pilot School gave me the oppurtunity to fly many aircraft types (over 20). I also had the dream of space flight one day but now that I'm in my mid-forties that's not likely to happen. But I can't complain because 30 years ago I wouldn't have even dreamed I would get to do what I have so far.
I'm pretty sure that his position is simply that ram air system don't work period, that it's all just a maketing scam. IMO free power from any source is free power and if you are already expending the energy to push the vehicle why not take advantage of something that doesn't cost you any extra power output to help the engine make additional power? Unlike a blower or turbo which eats up a huge amount of power that they produce through friction and thermal losses a ram air system costs no additional power loss and if "free." You won't be getting huge gains at the speeds street cars travel but if we're talking 5-10% at no additional cost in terms of energy needed to produce the gain I say go for it!
I also think that most ram air systems have not fully exploited the idea because to make them very effective they would not be very attractive on a street vehicle and they would require additional under-hood volume that is getting more and more scarce as time goes by.
sportspix, are you saying that "ramair" will give an extra 5-10% increase in hp??????? cuz on a street car there's no way that's gonna happen.
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We know that you can get 5% but I'd imagine that 10% would be the upper limit on a street car. When we had the last 2002 WS6 TA I tried to improve the ram-air by removing all of the internal guts of of the system and the very restrictive perforated metal grills that covered the ram-air intakes. This made a difference at speed on the freeway per the G meter but not on the dyno. Next I closed off the hood openings completely with duct tape and routed the air intake from under the hood but from behind the grill. This lost power on the freeway also per the G meter but not on the dyno. Pontiac credits the ram-air with 15HP at speed and we all know the LS1 was underated. I'd have to guess that to feel the difference with ram-air you'd need 20HP or so. I never trusted the G meter's HP readings as they were all over the place but it did show that the modified ram-air worked better (was quicker to speed), than the stock set up and without it. I don't have the old G Analyst or the 2002 WS6 TA anymore so I can't do anything other testing. I was just curious about it as I think the WS6 was the first ram-air form the factory that actually worked to some degree.
I'm pretty sure that his position is simply that ram air system don't work period,...
Yea SportsPix, that's how I read it and it's totally just not true. Of course it's his website and he can put anything he wants on it......and even call himself a "Guru" if he likes I suppose.
Anyway, .......yep Ram Air is free so why not use it?? And if anyone is concerned about added "Drag" forget it. A car is nothing close to an effecient aerodynamic shape so the performance gains from the ram air will far outweight any potential losses due to increased drag (I doubt you could even measure the drag impact from a Ram Scoop)
I can't speak to the actual HP gain from ram air because that really depends on the set-up and the engine involved. Just to give you some rough numbers: If you assume no momentum losses through your set-up (that's why want the straightest path to the intake with minimal restrictions and bends in the pipe is best), at 50 mph it would be about a .01 psi boost and at 100 mph it would be around 0.2 psi boost. Sure, it's not the mind-numbing 8 to 12 psi boost of a supercharger set-up but none-the-less it's by definition still a boost. And your dyno number make sense since on the dyno (car sitting still and no ram boost) the performance never changed regardless of how you routed your plumbing or even blocked it off, but at speed think you saw an increase in performance based on your accelerometer reading as you would expect from the increased total pressure at the intake.
By the way.........I'm VERY envious that you have access to a Dyno you get to play around and experiment on!!!!!!!!
I have never been of the opinion that RAM AIR doesn't work at all, my opinion is that the real world HP gain by choosing a RAM AIR over a good quality CAI, is so minimal that the excessive drag from the RAM AIR offests any "Ram Air effect" at street car speeds.
As far as CART or IRL goes, they need that scoop, they have a rear engine setup and there is no other good way to feed air to the engine. NHRA cars tend to have enormous forced induction units to feed and the negatives from the drag on those scoops is far outweighed by fully feeding those units with loads of clean air.
The closest "race car" to what we drive on the street is NASCAR, and those cars are all the same, they are all front engine, rear drive and naturally aspirated. If you're running a car with a similar setup you can get all the "clean & cool" air you need without any scoops.
RAM Air works, but works so much better than a quality CAI that it is worth all the extra money and work to put one on your car? Not for me, but I garuntee I would have one if I ever put forced induction on my car.
