AFM Web

Go Back   Ford Mustang Forums > Mustang Forums > 4.6 Mustang > 4.6L Tech
Welcome to AllFordMustangs.com. We look forward to you registering on our forum and making your first post.

Reply
 
Old 07-16-2006   #121 (permalink)
Twokingsracer is offline Made Member

4.6L Member


Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,808 Threads: 93
 Twokingsracer's Country Flag  View Twokingsracer's 5 photos  View Twokingsracer's 1 products for your review
Joplin   Missouri
Send a message via Yahoo to Twokingsracer
Default

Here is another great link from Bob The Oil Guy regarding some air filter stuff. This is an informative read. Make sure you check the link below for the actual test information. There are many additional links with photos.

Caveat: I am not holding this guy to be any kind of expert. He is doing that himself. Read and verify yourself.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob The Oil Guy
Air Filtration and Flow Test

As automotive enthusiasts, we are always looking for ways to increase the power output of our motors. Many aftermarket companies now manufacture and offer high performance air filters. Most all claim a power gain through increased airflow and some claim better filtration as well. In this test, many air filters will be compared. I personally have owned various makes of performance automobiles. This particular test is being conducted using a 1992 Mazda Miata with a bone stock engine (can't wait to modify it personally). I have many different turbocharger parts and components collected waiting to modify the Miata. The air filters tested include a Napa Gold, Amsoil two stage foam, Jackson Racing two stage foam, a Baldwin fiberous, a K&N, and a Mazda factory replacement.

The air filters will be mounted in the stock air box and filtration tested by placing a 2nd filter (after filter if you will) just before the airflow meter. A picture, as you will soon see, is worth a thousand words and shows this setup. A water manometer will be used to test pressure drop across each filter. Obviously the filters with lower pressure drop flow better, and have the potential to yield more power given the engine actually needs the airflow increase. The pressure drop across each filter will be measured in inches of H2O (water). The pressure drop will be from atmosphere using the stock Miata induction system to the air box just after the filter. 1 psi of pressure = 27.7 inches of water for reference.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering and am currently pursuing a master's in engineering management. I have been around the automobile all my life, and will be obtaining certification as an ASE certified mechanic this fall (for fun). My father worked in the automotive test industry my entire adolescent life. I've also spent much of my life at the race track, either racing as an amateur or with my father who was a crew chief for a stock car racer many years. He also was a crew chief at the 24 hours of Daytona and LeMans twice. I regret not being able to go to LeMans to this day. I'm a certified gage calibration technician, certified quality assurance inspector, certified as a refrigerant worker by the EPA, and work in the Navy as a mechanic in nuclear propulsion. I like to think I know a few things about machines including automobiles, but there is always something to learn.

I choose to conduct this test because of the conflicting information I see in advertisements and have read on the internet. Everyone claims that their filter flows the best, and removes the most dirt. If you think about it, flow and filtration ability are actually linked. A solid piece of metal would prevent any particles from entering the engine, but it wouldn't flow any air at all. On the other hand, the screen used on a window screen will flow well, but won't filter well at all. So if you think about it, the best flowing and best filtering is really contradictory in claim. I wanted to find out which filter really does filter the best, and which one really does flow the best. I have used almost every brand and type of air filter over the years including K&N. I had not used a foam filter until conducting this test. I have used every manner of off the shelf fiberous or paper filter.

There are basically four types of filtration materials currently in use for automobiles: paper or other fiberous (some appear much like fiberglass), foam, cotton gauze and stainless steel mesh. This test has used the first three, but not stainless steel mess. Steel mesh bathed in oil is some of the very first filtration materials ever used in an automotive application. There is a reason they were abandoned for paper in the '60s. I find it surprising that some aftermarket manufacturers are touting them now. In the links at the end, there is an interesting test of a stainless mesh filter.

The filters in this test were tested for both flow and filtration. The pressure drop across a filter is a good indication of its ability to rob the engine of needed airflow and hence power. Obviously the air filter with the least pressure drop is the highest performing. For the filtration test, I used a secondary filter after the filter being tested to catch any particles that passed through the first filter. The secondary filters were made by cutting apart an off the shelf Fram carburetor filter. The particles passing through the filter being tested leave a deposit on the secondary filter. The lightness or darkness on the secondary filter is an indication of how much dirt is getting through the filter being tested.

The differential pressure test was performed using a water manometer where one psi of pressure is equivalent to 27.7" of water. The differential pressure was measured between atmospheric and the pressure drop after the air filter in the stock airbox. The max pressure drop in this test was seen at only 7.0 inches of water or 0.25 psi. The factory airbox and piping with no filter yielded a pressure drop of 5.0 inches of water or 0.18 psi. That means that the worst filter in this test only caused a pressure drop of 0.07 psi. In my opinion, this means that if you are picking an air filter based on performance, you probably aren't doing your car any favors. For the record, the K&N was the best flowing filter. Of the 3 types of media tested, the cotton gauze type filters flow best. There are other brands besides K&N for sale, of which most are probably made by K&N for resellers. Foam air filters flowed marginally better than paper.

The filtration test has been the cause of much argument and debate in some circles. Many contend that a color comparison (comparing shades of gray) is not scientific or appropriate. Again, this is a very low budget test, and there are other scientific analyses where color comparison is valid. In water chemistry a color comparison is often used to determine concentrations as low as parts per billion. Search for information on titrations (of which some are by color) or color comparators. In chemistry the color is compared to a known standard of specific ion concentration by color. If you have ever played with a fish tank chemistry sampling kit, then you have done color comparison yourself. In this air filter test, no attempt is made at determining actual concentration. A color comparison is used to determine real world filtration ability. Each test filter was used in the same car, on the same roads for 500 miles. The darker deposits indicate poorer filtration, and lighter ones better filtration. That said, both the cotton gauze type (K&N) and foam filters (Amsoil & Jackson Racing) showed the same levels of filtration. Both performed poorly compared to the fiberous or paper filters (Napa, Baldwin, and Mazda).

If you are interested in the filtration pictures or pressure test data, follow the links provided to my other pages. You will also find links to other tests, which I found interesting on the web. In the end, paper or fiberous filters do remove more particles from the air before they enter your engine. The cotton gauze filters indeed offer better airflow. You have to decide for yourself whether you value ever last ounce of power or filtration. I cannot, nor will I make this decision for you. I do know that on a relatively stock car with a properly sized air filter, you indeed have very little if any performance to gain by swapping filtration material.
__________________
'97 GT with 80mm C&L MAF, C&LTrue-Flow CAI, MAC 70mm TB, Superchip, 180 thermo, B&M Ripper, King Cobra Clutch, FRPP aluminum quad/adj cable, MAC O/R H pipe, MIL's, Flows, Granatelli Solid control arms, FRPP 4.10's, FRPP aluminum driveshaft, Fidanza aluminum flywheel, FRPP 9mm wires, TMD aluminum U/D pulleys, Steeda full length SFC's (welded in), and 17" polished aluminum Cobra wheels with Nitto 555 Extremes, Kenwood/Alpine sound. Waiting for install: PI intake.
Twokingsracer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2006   #122 (permalink)
Twokingsracer is offline Made Member

4.6L Member


Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,808 Threads: 93
 Twokingsracer's Country Flag  View Twokingsracer's 5 photos  View Twokingsracer's 1 products for your review
Joplin   Missouri
Send a message via Yahoo to Twokingsracer
Default

And yes, the original Vetteguru article is gone.
__________________
'97 GT with 80mm C&L MAF, C&LTrue-Flow CAI, MAC 70mm TB, Superchip, 180 thermo, B&M Ripper, King Cobra Clutch, FRPP aluminum quad/adj cable, MAC O/R H pipe, MIL's, Flows, Granatelli Solid control arms, FRPP 4.10's, FRPP aluminum driveshaft, Fidanza aluminum flywheel, FRPP 9mm wires, TMD aluminum U/D pulleys, Steeda full length SFC's (welded in), and 17" polished aluminum Cobra wheels with Nitto 555 Extremes, Kenwood/Alpine sound. Waiting for install: PI intake.
Twokingsracer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2006   #123 (permalink)
hpjunkie03GT is offline Apprentice

4.6L Member


Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 122 Threads: 22
 hpjunkie03GT's Country Flag
Albany   Minnesota
Default

I bought a March "Ram Air" system a while ago and though I knew it would not work as a ram air with all the bends,the filter and the screen but I bet it works better as a cold air kit than any fender well kit ! I wanted to see how good it worked so I stuck one end of the hose out of my car window ,bent two 90* angles at 70 mph and it was almost like AC!!! And anything helps when its 100 degrees on the track.
__________________
2003 GT 5spd ,Magnaflo mufflers ,Steeda Triax,
3.73 gears,Nitto drags 245 45 17s,70mm BBK throttle body,Dragon plenum,Steeda pulleys, Strange rear drag shocks, S&B CAI, Mac Pro Chambers,2.5 in.cat-backs, 13.63@101.67 w/ 2.091 60 ft. Best 1/8mi 8.60@83.35mph w/1.94 60 ft.
Dynoed at 263rwhp & 302 lbft trq w/ 93 sct tune.
hpjunkie03GT is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2006   #124 (permalink)
baravelli is offline Rookie

S197 Member


Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21 Threads: 1
 baravelli's Country Flag
Baravelli   Washington
Default

D=1/2p V squared S Ct.
This is the empirical formula we aeronautical engineers to calculate air pressure for lift and drag. Basically, Density of air equals one-half barometric air pressure times velocity squared times size of aperature times temperature coefficient. The lower you are, the colder the air, the faster the speed, the greater the air pressure. Key factor is Velocity squared. Static air pressure is around 15 lbs per square inch. @ 30 MPH/40lbs PSI. @ 60 MPH/75lbs PSI. @ 120 MPH/140 PSI. No, it ain't 'chargin', but ram air is more effective than CAI and cheaper too. I'll take the two pounds of 'boost'.
Go figure.
baravelli is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2006   #125 (permalink)
gmflash is offline Made Member

4.6L Member


Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 277 Threads: 39
 gmflash's Country Flag  View gmflash's 16 photos
Trinity   Texas
Send a message via Yahoo to gmflash
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1998GT
lol some guy bought one of those electric 12v fans off of ebay. They are called like an "electric supercharger". Well the fan broke off and went down into his intake.. They are garbage, lol but i'm sure we have all seen that leaf blower hooked up an intake picture.


Awesome...I going to try that right now!
gmflash is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2006   #126 (permalink)
e5shea is offline Rookie


Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4 Threads: 0
 e5shea's Country Flag
Dayton   Ohio
Default

Although you might get cooler air with a ram air set up vs. a fender mounted CAI, fact of the matter is that without a S/C or turbo, you'll never "ram" air into the engine harder than the intake is going to pull it in.
__________________
Black 2003 Mustang GT
Power = 254 rwhp/ 291 rwtq (n/a)
1/4 mile = 13.444 sec. @ 102.94
e5shea is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007   #127 (permalink)
CobraBoy is offline Senior Member

4.6L Member


Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,943 Threads: 81
 CobraBoy's Country Flag  View CobraBoy's 13 photos
Sacramento   California
Default

i actually work with a guy who is an engineer and i was talking to him about having a "ram air" intake one day... he is really into cars and is very knowledgeable in every aspect. he basically said that a ram air system is pretty much pointless unless you are going about 200mph.. and proved it to me. interesting i thought. i dont have all of the graphs and such that he used to explain this but yeah you get the idea. the ram air set up looks cool but performance-wise, it really doesnt do too much unless you are going ridiculously fast. anyways.. im out
CobraBoy is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007   #128 (permalink)
vannacut2700 is offline Rookie

4.6L Member


Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 45 Threads: 6
 vannacut2700's Country Flag
Corvallis   Oregon
Default

ok, what about cowl-induction hoods? im looking into a cowl hood for my 98 gt stang. never really liked ram air hoods anyway...............
vannacut2700 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2007   #129 (permalink)
BlueStreak03 is offline Top Dog


Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 10,990 Threads: 390
 BlueStreak03's Country Flag  View BlueStreak03's 78 photos  View BlueStreak03's 5 products for your review
Trinity   North Carolina
Send a message via AIM to BlueStreak03 Send a message via Yahoo to BlueStreak03
Default

Cowl induction falls under the same category as 'Ram-Air' in my book. Unless you want to drop the coin on forced induction, a good free flowing intake is the best thing you can do.
__________________
Sometimes I think that government fits that old-fashioned definition of a baby: An alimentary canal with an appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
- Ronald Reagan

Stangless...for now
BlueStreak03 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2007   #130 (permalink)
Dave is online now Made Member

S197 Member


Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 938 Threads: 10
 Dave's Country Flag  View Dave's 6 photos
Amherst   Wisconsin
Default

Today's cowl hoods are more properly called "heat extraction" hoods rather than "induction" type. Great for reducing the under hood heat. With todays laid back windsheilds, no high pressure area exists like it might have in the late '60s' at the cowl area.
Dave
__________________
427R Roush-with Roush 540 motor,2300 TVS
'66' Ranchero w/almost done 302 T-5 swap
2005 4x4 Ranger
2001 Ranger Edge
'69' Fairlane Cobra, 428 4-speed waiting for work
Dave is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007   #131 (permalink)
blacksunshine02 is offline Rookie

4.6L Member


Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 19 Threads: 1
 blacksunshine02's Country Flag  View blacksunshine02's 2 photos
Huntington Valley   Pennsylvania
Default

One reason a fan between the MAF sensor and the throttle body would not work is because that little if any extra air is un metered air and this would cause poor running conditions. As far as Ram air I would say it would help because the air charge temp would be lower. Lower by colder temp and colder air has more air then hot air. Also if you have seen a BMW M3 it has 6 throttle bodies and the intake is short acting like a ram air affect. colder air and less time to fill the cyl with air. But thats just what i think.
blacksunshine02 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2008   #132 (permalink)
J. Rhapsody is offline Made Member

2.3L Member


Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 444 Threads: 29
 J. Rhapsody's Country Flag  View J. Rhapsody's 4 photos  View J. Rhapsody's 2 classified ads  View J. Rhapsody's HomePage
L-Ville   Kentucky
Default

The website aint up anymore
__________________
Foxy lady Roxanne 1981 2.3 hatch
Jax Rhapsody his life as a...
J. Rhapsody is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2008   #133 (permalink)
J. Rhapsody is offline Made Member

2.3L Member


Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 444 Threads: 29
 J. Rhapsody's Country Flag  View J. Rhapsody's 4 photos  View J. Rhapsody's 2 classified ads  View J. Rhapsody's HomePage
L-Ville   Kentucky
Default

Well air captured from goin over the hood is better than salvaged air entering the fender wells or none at all
__________________
Foxy lady Roxanne 1981 2.3 hatch
Jax Rhapsody his life as a...
J. Rhapsody is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008   #134 (permalink)
Dendro_4.6 is offline Made Member

4.6L Member


Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 284 Threads: 35
 Dendro_4.6's Country Flag  View Dendro_4.6's 13 photos
Cedar Rapids   Iowa
Default

One of the best things about a ram air hood that has vent ports in the cowl is that it extracts the hot air from the engine bay, cooling down the car.
__________________
3.73 gears, Eibach springs, MGW STS, UDP, 18" S-style BC rims, R 294-40-18, F 275/40/18, Bassani BX X-Pipe, Magnaflow mufflers, Roush side exhaust, Stage 3 body, BBK shorty headers, BBK valve covers, Patriot heads, Comp 270 x-cams, Fridanza cam gears, Bullitt intake, Twin 60mm TB, EV6 30lb. inj, JLT CAI, Diablo tuner, MAFia MAF calibrator, Dyno tuned.

Coming Spring '09: AM Wideband A/F, Elec Oil, and Shift Light Guage; J&M LCA, 90mm MAF, HID Duals, SFC, Race Seats, Rear Seat DK.
Dendro_4.6 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2008   #135 (permalink)
DiZzyBonne is offline Rookie


Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6 Threads: 1
 DiZzyBonne's Country Flag
San Jose   California
Default

http://web.archive.org/web/200504041...ru.com/ramair/
DiZzyBonne is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ram air question for a 2003 GT convertible ibeeskeef 4.6L Talk 10 08-16-2009 09:03 PM
87-93 Ram Air Kits? KMarshall 5.0L Tech 7 08-14-2005 08:36 PM
E-bay CAI greenfieldracin V6 Tech 33 04-25-2005 10:14 AM
Ram Air Hood 05GT68RSSS 2005-2009 Mustang Talk 3 04-17-2005 06:17 PM
Underdrive pulleys and Ram air set 5.0L Tech 1 04-09-2002 10:51 PM

sponsors

Mustang Photos
Add to Favorites    Link to us    Contact    Directory    Site Rules    Archive    Terms of Use    Privacy    Top Sites    RSS    Meet Our Sponsors    Advertise   
AllFordMustangs is not affiliated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company. ©Copyright 2002-2010 All Auto Enthusiasts Network

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112