hello i am plaining on doing the pi head swap on my 96 gt. i was just wondering, would it be better just to do the complete engine swap or just stick to the head swap are there any pros and cons by doing this will i need to change the wire harness.
A lot depends on the condition of your current block. If you've got a lot of hard-ridden miles on her, it might be time to go with a crate engine. I'd definitely do a compression test on the cylinders.
The amount of work involved in the swap is probably greater than a simple engine swap, so if you're not doing the work yourself you need to consider all the costs involved.
In general terms its probably not a good idea to try to do the PI kit without pulling the engine - at which point, you can imagine how much work it will be to remove the old parts, clean up the surfaces, install new parts, swap accessory items, etc.
If it were mine, I'd swap in a crate engine with the PI setup already installed. You'd still have to swap out your accessory items, but it would be a lot less work.
Once the motor's out, be sure the check out your clutch - no better time to fix it than now.
thanks for the reply. i have around 140,000 on the engine so i agree with you i should look into getting a complete engine and just dropping it in. do you know if all the electrical harness will be ok or will i have to re wire something, also i read in a previous thread that after you do the pi swap you have to get the car tuned.
Prices aren't bad and alot of parts can be found online or salvage yards.
__________________
"I've been around long enough to know how ignorant I am. I don't assume the universe obeys my preconceptions. Hah! But I know a frelling fact when it hits me in the face." -Rygel
My ROUSH Rides
98 ROUSH Stage 2 GT
03 ROUSH Cobra
thanks for the reply. i have around 140,000 on the engine so i agree with you i should look into getting a complete engine and just dropping it in. do you know if all the electrical harness will be ok or will i have to re wire something, also i read in a previous thread that after you do the pi swap you have to get the car tuned.
The 2 swaps I've done were on earlier stangs, but I believe your harness will work fine. You can discuss this with whoever sells you your parts (always do this anyway - it is amazing how often I tell the parts guy exactly what I need, he plunks the part on the table, and I start discussing the job - he gets a funny look on his face, says "Oh, you want a 130 amp alternator!" and I save myself lots of agony). Ford Racing has good crate engines, or you can check out Coast High Performance or DSS. The aftermarket guys make some good stroker engines, which would probably be my choice.
As for needing a tune, the short answer is YES. (So is the long answer). Do it on a dyno.
thanks again for the reply. im looking at getting a 03 or 04 stock engine. i will also look into changing out the cams and installing some some bbk shorty headers. what do you guys think? also in about two weeks i will be getting 3.73 gears put on.
Get long tubes you will like them better belive me.
If power is what you are looking for get the long tubes
but,if you are just looking to replace your headers than
get shortys.
thanks again for the reply. im looking at getting a 03 or 04 stock engine. i will also look into changing out the cams and installing some some bbk shorty headers. what do you guys think? also in about two weeks i will be getting 3.73 gears put on.
If you're thinking of putting in a junkyard motor, see about finding a low mileage car in a yard. You can probably get them to throw in the harness (pretty sure the 04 harness is different, by the way - might be a good idea to get the computer too if you find an 04). You can adapt your old harness if necessary, but this can be a headache.
If you really want something different, look for a 03-04 Cobra (sadly, some unappreciative or simply unlucky owners have already trashed these cars and they are rare but findable). Get the trans, harness and computer all together if you do this (you'll definitely have a powerful drive train then). You'll need a custom driveshaft to mate up to your 8.8 rear, but that isn't really a problem.
As for buying a stock crate engine and swapping in cams and shorty headers, I don't think I'd do that. Better to go with an aftermarket motor with your choice of cams and good 5 angle cnc job on the heads already. Get the long tube headers (I like the MAC design, with their seperate mounting for each individual tube - better alignment and easier install), preferably ceramic coated for long life span (expect to pay $100 more for the ceramic).
If you're thinking of putting in a junkyard motor, see about finding a low mileage car in a yard. You can probably get them to throw in the harness (pretty sure the 04 harness is different, by the way - might be a good idea to get the computer too if you find an 04). You can adapt your old harness if necessary, but this can be a headache.
If you really want something different, look for a 03-04 Cobra (sadly, some unappreciative or simply unlucky owners have already trashed these cars and they are rare but findable). Get the trans, harness and computer all together if you do this (you'll definitely have a powerful drive train then). You'll need a custom driveshaft to mate up to your 8.8 rear, but that isn't really a problem.
As for buying a stock crate engine and swapping in cams and shorty headers, I don't think I'd do that. Better to go with an aftermarket motor with your choice of cams and good 5 angle cnc job on the heads already. Get the long tube headers (I like the MAC design, with their seperate mounting for each individual tube - better alignment and easier install), preferably ceramic coated for long life span (expect to pay $100 more for the ceramic).
Luck!
tripleblack
good info triple, i only have about 3700 to spend to spend so im on a tight budget, i have a friend whos dad works at a ford parts distrbution place and he told me he could get me a complete engine for around 2500, so as far paying for a engine this is what i can spend, i found a mechcanic who can do the motor swap for 500 bucks wich i thought wasnt bad he has done previous jobs for me so i trust him. i want to do the 3.73 gear swap and thats going to run me about 600 bucks. so as you can see its going to be very close if it goes good. you mentioned that with a 04 the harness is diffrent and that i should get the computer also does this apply to the 03-02 motor also
Your new crate motor should include the PI heads, intake, etc., but not your accessory items (alternator, power steering pump, etc.), nor your air filter, mass air unit, and any number of vacuum hoses, water hoses, etc. The harness connections should work, but your computer chip's tune won't match the needs of the new motor (hence the need to have it tuned - set aside some money for this - $200 or so...). Engine swaps often result in finding problems with other parts (remember to check things like engine mounts, clutches, water hoses, vacuum lines, etc.). Check the new motor to be certain it IS a PI unit. The intake should have an aluminum section at the front where the upper radiator hose joins up (all the older model intakes that were recalled were plastic here and tended to crack). The PI motor will make 260 hp - a good improvement over your old motor.
If there's an expensive part you may need to replace, it'll be the Mass Air unit, which is not a part included with the crate engine. 99 and newer cars have mass air units calibrated differently from earlier models, and you may need to have yours re-calibrated or replaced ($250-300 for a new one).
$500 to do the swap is cheap, so I hope this guy is worth more than he's charging you! $600 for the gears is also a good price (assuming that includes the parts). Make sure that they replace all the seals and bearings when they do the swap. Don't let anyone talk you into replacing the C-Clips, either, because the alternative (C-Clip eliminator kit) only lasts about 6000 miles! OK for a 1/4 mile racer, but not a street car.
I hate to say this, but I predict you have to add to your parts list as you get into the project. Stuff breaks sometimes just because, and accidents happen when pulling parts apart after they've been married for 8 or 9 years. Try to find a few extra dollars to pay for the hoses, clamps and such that probably get boogered as part of the process.
Your new crate motor should include the PI heads, intake, etc., but not your accessory items (alternator, power steering pump, etc.), nor your air filter, mass air unit, and any number of vacuum hoses, water hoses, etc. The harness connections should work, but your computer chip's tune won't match the needs of the new motor (hence the need to have it tuned - set aside some money for this - $200 or so...). Engine swaps often result in finding problems with other parts (remember to check things like engine mounts, clutches, water hoses, vacuum lines, etc.). Check the new motor to be certain it IS a PI unit. The intake should have an aluminum section at the front where the upper radiator hose joins up (all the older model intakes that were recalled were plastic here and tended to crack). The PI motor will make 260 hp - a good improvement over your old motor.
If there's an expensive part you may need to replace, it'll be the Mass Air unit, which is not a part included with the crate engine. 99 and newer cars have mass air units calibrated differently from earlier models, and you may need to have yours re-calibrated or replaced ($250-300 for a new one).
$500 to do the swap is cheap, so I hope this guy is worth more than he's charging you! $600 for the gears is also a good price (assuming that includes the parts). Make sure that they replace all the seals and bearings when they do the swap. Don't let anyone talk you into replacing the C-Clips, either, because the alternative (C-Clip eliminator kit) only lasts about 6000 miles! OK for a 1/4 mile racer, but not a street car.
I hate to say this, but I predict you have to add to your parts list as you get into the project. Stuff breaks sometimes just because, and accidents happen when pulling parts apart after they've been married for 8 or 9 years. Try to find a few extra dollars to pay for the hoses, clamps and such that probably get boogered as part of the process.
Good luck - and let us know how it goes.
tripleblack
wow, its going to be a lilttle more work than i expected, i agree with you that after some parts are stuck together for 8 0r 9 years they wont come out so easy and might beak, i think i might wait a couple months to change out the gears and buy the mass air unit you mentioned and try to gather up some more money just in case something breaks or if i run into trouble. you also mentioned that i should check parts like the clutch air and vacum lines i will do some research on that. any more good info before i set out and start buying or maybe a break down list of parts
wow, its going to be a lilttle more work than i expected, i agree with you that after some parts are stuck together for 8 0r 9 years they wont come out so easy and might beak, i think i might wait a couple months to change out the gears and buy the mass air unit you mentioned and try to gather up some more money just in case something breaks or if i run into trouble. you also mentioned that i should check parts like the clutch air and vacum lines i will do some research on that. any more good info before i set out and start buying or maybe a break down list of parts
thanks again :thumbsup
OK, just a mind dump... If its rubber and been on the engine forever, replace it now. FRPP sells a complete set of nice blue hoses - you can get them through summit at www.summitracing.com. I know of a goodyear set that goes for about $70, and the FRPP set (more complete) for about $100. At times like this I like to replace any old vacuum and water hoses (especially any that are cracked, dried out or distorted). No bummer like putting a new engine in a car and having mysterious vacuum leaks screwing up the performance and water leaks threatening to overheat the new unit! You can buy generic hose in long lengths pretty cheap (probably need several different sizes, check what your car has before doing this). Get the correct diameter, and DO NOT try to substitute this type of hose for the custom formed hoses (you'll be able to tell them from the normal hoses because they'll be bent into a permanent shape which they can't lose, like an S). These custom items usually can be sourced at the dealer.
Good side of all this is that there will never be a better time to dress up that underhood layout. Buy cheap split cover in long lengths (comes all colors - I like red and blue) and use it to give the more noticeable uglies a pretty face. I'd also lay in a supply of chrome clamps of various sizes - any old clamps may fall prey to damage, and besides, the chrome will look good all day long.
If the car still has its orig. clutch, chuck it for at least a heavy duty unit from FRPP. Replace the entire unit, and particularly the orig. throw out bearing, which is a weak point on these cars. Ask for the heavy duty version of this as well. Clutch and bearing will cost about $140, and virtually nothing to install with the motor already out of the car. If the clutch cable is noisy, loose or in any way suspect, swap it out too (about $50 - $75 depending on what type you use - I recommend an adjustable unit with multiple quadrant made of metal instead of plastic).
Replace the serpentine drive belt if it has more than 65000 miles on it. Examine all the pulleys - these can wear out quickly if anyone has ever done a poor install of a component or a belt.
Check your local tuner or Ford dealer and ask what they charge to update your MAF (mass air). The dyno operator may be able to do this for you when they flash your new tune. You don't really need a new MAF, just a good oe item with the correct adjustment.
If your AC isn't working, don't just put the old compressor there to keep the belt tight - it will eventually seize up and cause untold agony. Now is the time to fix the AC if it doesn't work.
As a general rule waterpumps are on their last legs at 140,000 miles, and I think you get a new one installed on your crate engine. If not, I'd replace yours with a good remanufactured unit if its original. It its fairly new, swap it over (the same holds true for all the accessories). I know you're stretched financially, so use good judgement here.
When the motor's out of the car, clean out the engine compartment and check all the wiring and the front end - you'll never have a better view. Scope out the radiator, make sure its not all scarred up or leaking.
This need not stop you from getting those gears (I like 3.73's myself, by the way) - but it would be wise to wait until you've got the motor all arranged. This gives you a little cushion in case you have to spring for something unexpecte.
thanks for all the help triple, i will be picking up my new engine tommorow and i will also be ordering a new c&l mass air set. i hope everything goes ok. will keep posted :thumbsup
pi head swap or complete engine swap 
