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Unread 05-25-2006   #1 (permalink)
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Default Building a 4.6 engine

Greetings all,

Long time Mustang fan, first time 4.6 builder. I am finally getting serious about building my first motor from the ground up. While I've never built a complete motor I have confidence that it's something that I can handle with a little help along the way. So I intend to be checking in here at least occasionaly for ideas

My first purchase will be a block. I intend to use an aluminum block. I have done a little reading on the subject but I would like to have all the input I can get before I do step out and buy a block. My reading indicates that a good choice would be a block from a '96-'98 Cobra, I have also read that the '93-'98 Lincoln MkVIII used the same block. My first question is, does anyone here have experiance with the Lincoln block? Is it exactly the same, ie: motor mounts in the same place? Will it drop into a '98-'04 Mustang without modifications?
I can get a '97 Lincoln motor with 90K on it locally for about $1000.00. The other concern I have is the boring the cylinders on these 4.6's. Can they be bored if necessary or do they have to be re-sleaved?

I have a thousand other questions but I'm going to stop here for now. Don't want to get ahead of myself already

I appreciate any info that is offered.

Dave
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Unread 05-25-2006   #2 (permalink)
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Yes the cylinders can be bored, but only up to about .030" and that's pushing it a bit if you want to run a high compression ratio or boost.
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Unread 05-25-2006   #3 (permalink)
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Keep us posted, GAZHO! I've been thinking along the same lines for the next off season. Good luck.
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Unread 05-25-2006   #4 (permalink)
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The 1st gen Mark VIII blocks *I'm told* were an italian cast and can withstand some 600+ horsepower (something obsurd I forget). The 2nd gens were good blocks as well, but weren't quite as strong as the 1st.

Could be wrong on that, might want to double-check - but may be worth looking into.
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Unread 05-25-2006   #5 (permalink)
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The blocks used in the Mk VIII are the same ones used in the '96-'98 Cobra. Cast in Italy by a company called Teksid. I'm reading a Sean Hyland book that claims they have used this block as the basis for drag racing engines up to 1500 bhp. I'm still not positive that the block is the same in regards to engine mount position but at this point I assume it is.
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Unread 05-25-2006   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazho
The blocks used in the Mk VIII are the same ones used in the '96-'98 Cobra. Cast in Italy by a company called Teksid. I'm reading a Sean Hyland book that claims they have used this block as the basis for drag racing engines up to 1500 bhp. I'm still not positive that the block is the same in regards to engine mount position but at this point I assume it is.
the block is identical... infact the motor is nearly identical to the cobra's... only difference is a cast crank and a different intake.

Post up your questions.. i'm an engine builder myself, and have done quite a few of these 4.6's. I have a thread that you can search under... i posted pics and what not of the shortblock after completetion. I try to list what i'm doing in each step, but doing so takes years to type out.

If you have any specific questions, just ask. I can answer them for you.




BTW, a teskid block, unmodified can withstand 1200hp. It's been tested hard, and with good success. The late model 01 cobra WAP blocks, and the mountian blocks found in the explorers are good to ~700hp, but lack that extra webbing in the mains that made the teskid block so great.

Also, teskid blocks were used in 1999 cobra's as well, so you can search for one thre too.
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Unread 05-25-2006   #7 (permalink)
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One more thing.. you can tell a teskid block apart from a late model aluminum block by looking in the intake valley for crosshatching. All teskid blocks have crosshatching across the intake valley, while the late model WAP blocks do not.

Aluminum blocks also have 14mm jack screws on the side of the main caps, which are a PITA to get out.

If you plan on using 2V heads on the aluminum block, you might need to drill a coolant passage on the drivers side. IT's a 3/8" NPT hole right next to the water jacket. You'll have to look to see if the block has that hole or not. It was not found on the early 93-95 Mark VIII blocks, but was found on most 96-99 blocks. Just a heads up, otherwise you'll have coolant blowing out your upper radiator hose
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Unread 05-26-2006   #8 (permalink)
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My "plan" is to build a N/A 4.6 using the 4v heads and put it into a '99-'04 Mustang. The "plan" is highly dynamic, it changes almost hourly The biggest obstacle right now is my utter ignorance of the electronics end of this whole thing. Admittedly I have a lot of reserch to do on that end, for instance will the stock computer in a '99-'04 Mustang work on the motor I build? Is it a matter of reprogramming it to work? If not where do I go to find a electronic management system to work with my motor?

I'm going to stop now as I just got home from driving all night and I'm trying to convince myself this whole thing is just an expensive bad idea I'll be back after I get 5 or 6 hours of sleep. I'll be in a better mood then.
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Unread 05-26-2006   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazho
My "plan" is to build a N/A 4.6 using the 4v heads and put it into a '99-'04 Mustang. The "plan" is highly dynamic, it changes almost hourly The biggest obstacle right now is my utter ignorance of the electronics end of this whole thing. Admittedly I have a lot of reserch to do on that end, for instance will the stock computer in a '99-'04 Mustang work on the motor I build? Is it a matter of reprogramming it to work? If not where do I go to find a electronic management system to work with my motor?

I'm going to stop now as I just got home from driving all night and I'm trying to convince myself this whole thing is just an expensive bad idea I'll be back after I get 5 or 6 hours of sleep. I'll be in a better mood then.
Ok, you're going 4V route, good to know. 4V's make good power, but before you start throwing parts at one, you need to know where you want to make your power, etc.

4V's are VERY picky little motors. They make gobs of power, but if you overcam, undercam, choke these motors you won't like it. The biggest problem people have with 4V's is that they think they like big cams like th eold pushrod motors do. They respond VERY little to lift, and odn't like too much duration.

Yes, the stock computer and electronics will work. In fact, it's plug and play, except for 2 wires (1 of tehm is a CTS). All you have to do with those 2 wires is lengthen them (cut and splice). You will need a tune, but other than that, the wiring part is very simple.
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Unread 05-26-2006   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markwondi
Ok, you're going 4V route, good to know. 4V's make good power, but before you start throwing parts at one, you need to know where you want to make your power, etc.

4V's are VERY picky little motors. They make gobs of power, but if you overcam, undercam, choke these motors you won't like it. The biggest problem people have with 4V's is that they think they like big cams like th eold pushrod motors do. They respond VERY little to lift, and odn't like too much duration.

Yes, the stock computer and electronics will work. In fact, it's plug and play, except for 2 wires (1 of tehm is a CTS). All you have to do with those 2 wires is lengthen them (cut and splice). You will need a tune, but other than that, the wiring part is very simple.
Hmm, power.....the more the better To be honest I can't answer that question yet, I'll have to address that in just a bit. I guess the "beating around the bush, I really don't know" answer is that this car will NOT be a race car. It will be a car I drive on the street so must be street legal, emissions legal etc.

I've found two compete engines at a local junk yard out of Mk VIII's they want $1000.00 and $1200.00. I have a part number of the block I want, F6LZ-6010-AB. Any idea if that number is cast on the block somewhere that I can find it easily to make sure I'm getting what I'm looking for? For that matter any suggestions on what to look for on a used 4.6 motor?

Thanks for you help so far everyone, really do appreciate it.
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Unread 05-26-2006   #11 (permalink)
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Oh ya, as I said I do intend to do a N/A motor. I'd like to keep open the option of putting forced air on this thing at some point in the future.

Dave
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Unread 05-26-2006   #12 (permalink)
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Not for racing!!!, whats the point??? J/K. How much power do you plan on making with this block/engine?
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Unread 05-26-2006   #13 (permalink)
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OK, if this is going to be a daily driven, rarely raced car I would say pick a cam that's going to give you the widest, flattest power/torque curves you can get. You'll sacrifice some peak power, but you'll be much happier overall. I would say have the heads ported and polished and get a set of moderate lift, moderate duration cams. Nothing with a crapload of overlap if you think you're going to go to a blower at some point. Also consider bumping up the compression ratio just a bit. This will limit the amount of boost you'll be able to make should you put a blower on, but with a tad higher compression ratio, you really won't sacrifice anything in the long run as long as you use an intercooler.
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Unread 05-27-2006   #14 (permalink)
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Well at this point I think I know which block I want. The Teksid that Ford used in the Mid to late '90's Mk VIII's and '96-'98 Cobra's. Now I'm moving on to heads.

As I said earlier I would like to use the 4v head, question is which one? The '99 and up PI head? Or should I bide my time and hold out for a set of the '99-'01 tumble port heads?....or go with and aftermarket head of some sort? Between the two Ford heads it sounds to me as though the tumble port is the way to go, better mid range torque and ~15 more peak hp. But are they out there for purchase?

As for the power, I think BlueStreak hit it. I think I want a fairly wide power band, I don't think I want to have to be running at a narrow RPM range to get all the good power and torque. And now another, and not the last, display of my ignorance I would love to have a streetable, N/A 4.6 that can put down 400 RWHP. Am I out of my mind or is that a realistic expectation?

Next is another issue BlueStreak touched on, cams Another area I have vague knowledge of but no real understanding. So back to the books and forums for some enlightenment. Then on to rotating assemblys

Again thanks for your time, patience and help. As soon as I get a better grip on where exactly I'm going I'll post some pics.
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Unread 05-28-2006   #15 (permalink)
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Yes you're asking for quite a lot with N/A 400rwhp. It can be done, but it's not going to be a very streetable engine. If you're dead serious about that kind of power, save some cash on head and block swaps. Just get some good forged internals, a Cobra crank and a supercharger. You'll EASILY score the 400 mark with 9-11psi of boost with the right cams, mildly ported heads and a conservative tune.
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