Gear Warning: Motive vs FRPP and FRPPs made by Motive

JoeLee · 03-02-2007

If you are in the market for gears, you will probably want to read this first. I'm very glad that I read it before I ordered my gears.

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2...ars-70353.html

I got the FRPP 4.10s part number M4209G410A, not the part number M4209G410M. By the way, the M4209G410M were $40 cheaper.

Please dont be lazy and read the whole thread, it is very good info from very good sources.

BlueStreak03 · 03-04-2007

I read the first few posts. 1) Motive has been making FRPP's gears for I don't know how long. 2) Whether you have noise or not depends completely on how well the installation is done. Backlash and pre-loading must be setup perfectly or you will have noise. 3) Break-in period and method must also be done properly to prevent noise and shot life span of a new set of gears. So many people you can just toss in a set of gears and go of to the races. Actually it's incredibly hard to get a gears in correctly and get them broken in properly.

GTS 5.7 · 03-04-2007

I ordered a set of Motive 3.73s last week,to be installed by a Tech from the local Ford dealer at his own shop.Wish me luck,and answer me this-how/what's best to break in the gears before you go "play"?

JoeLee · 03-04-2007

OK. I'll save you guys a few clicks and post here some of the replies.
I already have my gears installed, and they have no whine.
I'm posting this here so you guys can make a more educated decision.
I'm just passing this info in case I can help someone avoid a costly mistake.

Quote:

What Kevin has said is correct ,Motive is making the FRPP gears now,the last 3 3.73's or 4.10's I've put in are obviously NOT Ford gears.They have the undercut on them,much different "texture" on them,BUT be FOREWARNED,they are not all like this!! I have the same tools Ford uses on the assembly line(OTC) & after putting in over 90 of these gears with ZERO whine 3 out of the last 7 I have installed had some whine too them,not bad but they DID have some noise on cruise or decel.I disassembled & rechecked 2 of the 3 & they were set up perfect, no reason at all for the noise except the gears themselves,that's when I did my research & found out Motive had taken over the gear market for Ford.I used to offer a money back guarantee on any gear install if using new FORD gears but now I just tell the customer straight up what is going on w/h the gears & that they may or may not have some noise to them & that it is NOT the setup that causes it.

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For what it's worth the date which motive began manufacturing the 4.10 geaarset for Ford was 11/05. My installer who is a Ford mechanic does 50-60 gear sets a year. I have driven in many cars the year before in which he has done the gear installs and have never heard a set of his gears whine. I had it done by him late March/early April as soon as the car came oit of storage. These were the M4209G410M instead of the M4209G410A

As others have stated they are made for FRPP by Motive and have a backcut on the ring gear.

After installing them we went for a road test and the whine on decell was insane.
To make a long story short he setup the gears 3 times and didn't charge me any more than if he did it once but the whine was still there.

We happened to pull a set of older FRPP 4.10's out of my friends 03 GT 1/4 mile car which had about 50 runs on them and threw them in and no more whine.

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Hey guys my name is Rick I am the Mgr of Downs Ford Motorsport. The M onthe end of the part number means they werebuilt by Motive gear. I have also had issues with whine noise's. What I been doing is having anyone who purchase's the gears with M at the end of the number go onto Motive gear site and download the motive gear install instructions they seam to differ from the Ford set up a little which I have found makes the difference so their is no Whine from the rear. Any question feel free to call me at 1-732-349-2240 ext 958 ask for Rick

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You can get the original FRPP gears again they just started releasing them again unfortunatley they are more expensive. If you are buying them and want the gears from Ford and not Motive make sure the number is M-4209-G410A. Have a good Holiday evryone.

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ive seen the majority of gears that make noise are on steady cruise or on slight decel. Even with them "on the money" and the "numbers" and "pattern" check out they still sing. If you read the directions from any gear maker they always put in that the gears "can" make noise, and doesnt make for a incorrect install.
If you get your gears done, and you are going to a set that have a checking distance on them, ASK the shop to see, (if you arent sure if they are capable) their depth tools for gears, and give you a quick lesson on how its done. I always try and educate my customers about whats going on, and the tools i may use. Thats why i get 325.00 in labor to do my rears, it may be a little higher than most, but i use the tools, and make sure they are on the money, noise or not. And after is show the customer why,how, and what i do, they are a bit more comfortable to plunk down a little more than what "everyone" else pays. Building a rear is a lost art, and too many just "slap em" together.

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was told yesterday that the Ford gears with a part number ending with an "M" are noisy. The ones with an "A" are quiet.

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correct, they are made by motive.

I have all the fancy gear setting tools, and even when they are on the "money" they can whine when they are other than "ford" gears made by ford. All of fords gears don't have pinion depth scribed on them, you have to measure it yourself thru a formula.
Pinion Torque has nothing to do with the whine if they were installed correctly. The pinion torque has to do with the bearings and it doesnt matter what set of gears you install, pinion torque has to be correct. 25 inch/lbs for new bearings, and 15 inch/lbs for used ones. This also isnt the torque on the nut but rather the "drag" on the bearings. It takes 25 inch/lbs of force to get the pinion to start to move. Its all about bearing preload.

If gears whine, it doesnt mean they are installed incorrect. Some materials have harmonics to them. Theres a big difference between the whine you here with a incorrect install, a bearing whine, or the whine of a "noisy" set of gears. They are all distinct. It takes a trained ear to distinguish. You can have a accel whine, a decel whine, or just a plain old whine.
Whe i see the gears marked other than ford i know theres that chance they may be noisey. And i always forewarn my customers.

As others have stated they are made for FRPP by Motive and have a backcut on the ring gear.

After installing them we went for a road test and the whine on decell was insane.
To make a long story short he setup the gears 3 times and didn't charge me any more than if he did it once but the whine was still there.

We happened to pull a set of older FRPP 4.10's out of my friends 03 GT 1/4 mile car which had about 50 runs on them and threw them in and no more whine.

FunkyBoss · 03-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTS 5.7

I ordered a set of Motive 3.73s last week,to be installed by a Tech from the local Ford dealer at his own shop.Wish me luck,and answer me this-how/what's best to break in the gears before you go "play"?

Heat cycles - drive easy for 10-15 minutes to heat them up, then park it for a few hours to allow it to cool. Do this 3-5 times and then take it easy driving for the first week to be absolutely safe. Or you can do what I did, drop it off the lift and go wide-open for the whole hour and a half trip home

. I never broke mine in, then I developed a little gear whine but it was fixed with some friction modifier. The gear survived through hell, Launching at 5k with dr's pushing 400rwhp/400rwtq, but maybe I'm just lucky

.

JoeLee · 03-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTS 5.7

I ordered a set of Motive 3.73s last week,to be installed by a Tech from the local Ford dealer at his own shop.Wish me luck,and answer me this-how/what's best to break in the gears before you go "play"?

The break in procedure I have read on several places is the following:
Drive normally for 15-20 minutes. Let them cool off completely (2 hours?). Repeat this cycle 3 or 4 times.
What I did was to just use the car normally (15 min highway to work in the morning and back home in the afternoon) for 2 days. The guy at the shop told me it was not necessary to break them in. I did it anyway. Better be safe than sorry...

GTS 5.7 · 03-04-2007

thanx guys.....

BlueStreak03 · 03-04-2007

Motive has been making FRPP's gears for a lot longer than 18 months. I don't know why they started putting a back cut on the ring gear (maybe to save weight?). But apparently it changed the harmonics of the rear end. If the clearances and tolerances and wear patterns are all the same, it's gotta be harmonics.

markwondi · 03-04-2007

If you're looking for a top quality gear set, take a look at Yukon. They make very quality gears and differentials.

xxkazp3rxx · 03-05-2007

I had motive 3.90's and they had absolutly NO whine.

I believe they're all on the installer, I talked to a Ford mechanic about it, and he said the same thing as the guy up there said. That there is a different install for the two different sets. Motive has been making FRPP gears for quite sometime now.

carguy1985 · 03-05-2007

my motive 373s blew up, snappy the pinion into the ring, dunno, and i ran it safe for 300-400 miles.

qwkstang97 · 03-30-2007

There is alot of bullshit in that thread.

and anyone that says motive are not as good as ford gears is a moron plain and simple.

dtorres03gt · 03-30-2007

I went with U.S. Gear and I love them. There is no whine at all. (MADE IN THE USA)

itali83 · 04-01-2007

Why don't I hear anything about RIchmond gear sets? They have been around for ever and they make a set that is about the same price as everyone else's. They must be a good gear company to be still in business for as long as they have.

dtorres03gt · 04-01-2007

I hear the whine on richmonds are pretty loud