I know I'm the new guy, but I figured I'd jump right in. Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm no newbie when it comes to fords, but I deal with trucks, and small blocks, period. I have very little experience with mustangs, only an old friend's '95 convertible GT 5.0/5speed.
I've had an interest in building a "hot rod" for years now, and I think I've finally come to the point of buying and building my project.
I'm sure this isn't a new idea at all. I'd like to drop a 351W into a v6 car from '94 to '04. I'm not really sure which chassis is better built, and what the differences in chassis are between engine platforms. I expect suspension differences, but Not quite sure about anything else.
I've done some light searching on the forums here and have come up empty handed. I did on the other hand stumble on a pretty cool ebay auction (although I didn't save the link, or auction number, I did copy all the information and pictures) for a 2004 cobra clone with a turbo 351W.
That's a little more than I'm after right now. I'm starting this project thinking small. I.E. Buy the car, strip it, drop the engine and trans (still undecided on C6 or TKO) and go from there.
If any of you have any input (towards the 351W swap, not an engine build), or threads you'd like to share, please don't be shy!
This topic has been handled extensively in the 5.0 forums, if you need further info, try a search of them.
Less often, it has come up in the 4.6 forums, but there is info there as well. The article I linked to is about the much more common Fox/SN95 swap. One thing I do know, you will have hood clearance problems.
If it were my project I would consider building a 1995 Cobra R replica. They only made 250 of the real thing.
Best of luck. Post up pics and details of your project as it progresses, please.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
Last edited by EagleAutosports; 06-24-2009 at 03:03 PM.
I haven't quite decided which year I want to go with, I'm really curious as to what years had the best handling? I'll narrow my choice of look from there. Although the '95 Cobra R's were pretty bad ass, both in performance and appearance!
I hate, loathe, and despise all the body kits that are out for mustangs these days, it's really given the "American Pony Car" a bad reputation in the world of V8 power.
I'd be more interested in the cobra ground effects than anything else, and that's a distant future plan once the swap is handled.
I read somewhere that the 351 wouldn't clear the hood due to deck height, so I planned on running a cowl hood.
When it all comes down to it, the car will be badge less, no chrome, and probably some stocker rims with some DOT slick rubbers.
A 351 swap would be easiest if done on a car that came with a small block (5.0L) instead of a modular motor (96 and on) but that depends on how far you want to go concerning time, money and complexity.
One thing I don't know is that considering a 3.8 Essex V-6 was used in 94-04 mustangs, bellhousings must be the same as the small block (So you can use a tranny that was available with that year of mustang and not mess with reforming the tranny tunnel or mess with shifter locations and clutch actuation system like you might have to with a different transmission-car combination than was intended to be) and motor mounts should be swappable to the V-8's used in the sn-95's (so the modular motor K-frame accepts the small block, perhaps there is 2 different K-frames, one for 3.8's and one for modulars?) but double check first.
My suggestion would be a 94 to 95 mustang (sn-95) being they seem to be improved fox's especially in the chassis. The only problem is that I don't think the aftermarket choices are as cheap or plentiful as they are for a fox but then again if they are improved, why bother? My understanding of the sn-95 (or fox 4) platform is that ford engineers looked at what enthusiasts were doing to their foxes and designed sn-95's around the aftermarket parts being swapped into the foxes. Another issue with the sn-95 is the weight (see link). Also, the s197 starts at 3350 lbs for a v-6. Another point to consider is how swappable a small block is in the 96 and later sn-95's that use the modular motor.
The foxes are lighter but flimsier, the aftermarket support is greater and many guys are very aware of the fox's weak and strong points whereas few have a clue about the newer cars. But, it seems like you don't want to do the fox thing which is understandable, there are a lot of us on the road.
As for handling I would assume the newer the better but weight has a detriment to producing G's.
Handling differences between the SN95's and the 99-04 cars (particularly the V6's you are looking at) are pretty minor, and won't mean much after you plunk that huge motor between the strut towers anyway. Most of the V6 suspension will have to be upgraded to offset the weight gain up front, as will the brakes, while the rear suspension will be incapable of controlling all that torque.
Assume you will be tossing virtually everything, and starting with something like a clean sheet of paper suspension-wise.
The 8.8 rear will need some help, but will work, but the LCA's, UCA's, springs, shocks, struts and so forth will all have to go.
www.maximummotorsports.com would be a good group to start a dialogue with. I have had good luck with their techs and this sort of question in the past.
__________________
tripleblack
"You can never be free until you let yourself go."
yea, the 94/95 gt is a little heavier. also a little stronger. just depends on body style you like. the fox cars can be be made plenty stiff with right parts. the sn95s also have 5 lug to start with, and most have rear disc also. good luck sounds like a nice project.
If you were to go with a 1994-1995 V8 car to begin with, then you'd be further ahead. Then all you would need to do is get a 351 swap kit and it'd go in. The V6 cars would need a different k member for the V8. The 1996 and up, both V6 and V8, would have to have the different k member for the Windsor engine.
You're right about needing the cowl hood, the 351 is tall and requires that room. You could get specs on the 1995 Cobra R and go with that.
__________________
MOOG Certified Tech. For mods and sound clips, see profile and gallery.
Ask me why I ran "only" a 13.54.
Member: NMRA Member: White Mustang Registry #362 Member: Fuzzy Dicer
The K member is the only thing that's making me edgey. I do work for a fab shop, and can pretty much make anything I need, but the k member isn't as simple a cross member as the one in my bronco.
I'm not too generally concerned with weight, and I'm aware the v6 suspension would not handle the rolling weight of the 351 around turns.
I will more than likely be eliminating the back seat and installing a roll cage (That's kind of what we do at our shop...).
I anticipated having to change brakes.
Being un-aware of the k member differences, I assumed that this would be a cost effective alternative to paying the price GT's are selling for. It looks as though I may be wrong.
I will continue to gather information on this. I'm not against scrapping a 4.6L either.... (Anything I scrapped would go up for sale here)
That's also $700.... The idea is to cut cost where ever possible. Don't think "budget" when you think of this.... but think about doing stuff on the cheap. The most expensive thing I can do is make it myself, because when I'm working at the shop, and not making products to sell, I'm not making any money.
It's very likely that I may just make my own k member.
The upside to this, is that I'd need a new k member no matter if I had a 3.8, or 4.6L.
Hmmmmm..... We'll see what kind of cars I can find this month, maybe I'll get lucky and find something worth while.
Been researching K members for a while. I spoke with a few local people who have aftermarket K members, took a look at their cars and I feel confident that I can fabricate my own at the shop.
So what are the opinions of those who are experienced enough to decipher the driving/handling differences in the chassis?
If I go with a 1994-1998, or a 1999-2004 what are the Pro's and Con's of these chassis?
Are there braking differences, weight differences, handling differences? Does one do better straight or turning than the other?
I can make just about anything metal bend to my will, but I can't change development and design.
The sooner I know which model will perform better, I'll be able to purchase the car and begin the project!
jd, jegs has a bolt in k-member for 250 bucks. QA1. good stuff. oh yea, the V6 cars can be had cheap. i just bought a 96 V6 5 speed car for 1000 bucks, and drove it home. ran great.
Project 351 swap 
