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Unread 11-19-2009   #1 (permalink)
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Default GT40X vs AFR vs Twisted Wedge

So, do you think it would be worth the money (after selling off the GT40X heads) and my time to replace my GT40X heads with a pair of Trick Flow Twisted Wedge or AFR 165s?

I installed these GT40x heads back in Jan 09 and I've just never been convinced that they are the answer. I've been trying to gather data (mostly magazine tests - however accurate that may be) to support one way or the other whether it would be worth it to switch them (given my combination) for another set of heads.

Seems like a bit of a gamble since different motors will respond differently to different parts, but I'm curious what you might think.
Thanks y'all.

Sorry in advance for the "which head is the best thread."
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Unread 11-19-2009   #2 (permalink)
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So you arent happy with a Stock Valve placement head. But are considering AFR 165's which have the same valve placement? Hmmmm?

I would take the Twisted wedges any day of the week.
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Unread 11-19-2009   #3 (permalink)
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This is why I ask the question. I'm not an expert in this area. I have read that the GT40x is an old design, the AFR 165 flow way more air and their smaller combustion chambers are good for a N/A motor. Course, I've also read that the TW heads flow more than yet (perhaps due to their bigger valves). Stock valve placement...that is a good point.
Thanks for chiming in!
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Unread 11-19-2009   #4 (permalink)
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I think both the AFR and TFS heads would be an upgrade from the X heads, so the battle then becomes between those two.
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Unread 11-19-2009   #5 (permalink)
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now you've opened up a whole can of opinions!! hopefully you'll actually get some specs to back up what people are saying instead of "this is what i use.. go with these they rock!" with no explanation!

i like AFR, my friend has Twisted Wedge, we both have stroked out 351w based engines, we both put out nearly identical numbers, so i'd say either will be an upgrade!
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Unread 11-20-2009   #6 (permalink)
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Yes, that's the issue. What would either of those newer heads be worth compared to my current GT40x? I mean, if the gain is 10 hp on a street car then it probably isn't worth the cost or my time. However, if the gain is 20-30 rwhp and torque then that's a different animal.

We always talk about buying the best heads you can afford. What does that mean?
Does it mean get the heads that flow the most average air while still being efficient relative to the engine's displacement and desired operating rpm range, plus have an appropriate size combustion chamber?
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Unread 11-20-2009   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
So you arent happy with a Stock Valve placement head. But are considering AFR 165's which have the same valve placement? Hmmmm?

I would take the Twisted wedges any day of the week.
What is wrong with the stock valve placement? You are the second one I've heard say something about that. The other guy is no longer around...

Don't most aftermarket heads use the stock valve placement?
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Unread 11-20-2009   #8 (permalink)
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Trick Flow Specialties - Twisted Wedge Head - Head Test - Hot Rod

pretty good little article, look at the dyno test...
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Unread 11-20-2009   #9 (permalink)
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how bout a nice set of Canfields? :kooky:
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Unread 11-20-2009   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302Feen View Post
What is wrong with the stock valve placement? You are the second one I've heard say something about that. The other guy is no longer around...

Don't most aftermarket heads use the stock valve placement?
The problem with the stock valve placement heads, is valve shrouding in the chamber and in the bore. The TFS TW valve location is rotated to the center of the bore. This helps out a lot in the shrouding department. The standard valve angle also directs the air into the side of the bore. Where as the TFS TW head have a different angle, that directs the air charge in a more straight shot into the cylinder bore.

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how bout a nice set of Canfields? :kooky:
The Canfields are still a 20 head. But the valves are moved slighty toward the center of the bore. Which make them stand out more than the other 20 heads. But dont count on getting any of the Original Canfields from Canfield. The owner retired, and DSS bought the equipment. Supposedly they will make the same casting, but with there quality standards. Dont expect the same quality head that the Canfields originally were.
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Unread 11-20-2009   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by need4spd90 View Post
how bout a nice set of Canfields? :kooky:

Yeah right need4speed90!
not sure why you are stuck on trick flo or AFR heads? Of course GREAT HEADS but there is so many great brands out there as good if not better and everyone here will have there own opinion and that is all it is. Yes canfield a great head, RHS makes a good head, Edelbrock, World products, Dart "two thumbs up since that is what I run " And the list goes on. I know I have left a ton of great heads off the list but don't be stuck on Trick flo and AFR. Again great heads but if you look around you may find a good deal on some heads at a better deal from another company as good if not better. I have to tell you dart has done me right so I would say go dart of course :nogrinner
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Unread 11-21-2009   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
The owner retired, and DSS bought the equipment. Supposedly they will make the same casting, but with there quality standards. Dont expect the same quality head that the Canfields originally were.
i guess thats why you see them going for $1k a set(used) these days huh

im sick of the phrase "they dont make em like they used to" holding true to everything anymore..sucks..
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Unread 11-21-2009   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by need4spd90 View Post
i guess thats why you see them going for $1k a set(used) these days huh

im sick of the phrase "they dont make em like they used to" holding true to everything anymore..sucks..

Yup, and unless mine get damaged, I will probably never get rid of them. I think(but not sure), that the castings will be produced over seas(China????). I just hate to see a good ole' Made in the USA product get done like this.
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Unread 11-21-2009   #14 (permalink)
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a guy a few miles up the road from me has a nice set of ported Canfield 195's for sale for $1100 OBO..he said they were "supposedly" ported by DSS,which goes along with your statements..he has flow #'s listed in his ad,they move some serious air...

he's a cool kid,i bought a fuel pump from him..if i had the money i'd get these lol
Canfield 195's - PennMustangs
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Unread 11-21-2009   #15 (permalink)
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Those are the old Canfield castings. Which you can tell by the part number. 20-450-58 means they are the 192cc casting. There were some issues with those heads casting. It was corrected and the new part number was 20-475. Looks like a mild port job was done. Ive seen those flow upwards of 310-315 cfm range with a more eloborate job done.

For those keeping record.

Part number goes like this. 20-450(or 475)-58-1(or 0)

20= Valve Angle
450/475= HP they support
58= size of the combustion chamber
-1 or -0 tell if the chamber was CNC'd or not.

DSS didnt have the tooling then, so the only reason is because someone sent them in to DSS after they left the Canfield company.

Something I found out recently was that if the size of the CC was not in the part number, that it meant that the heads were not finished at Canfield. The heads were shiped out and finished else where.
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