GT40X vs AFR vs Twisted Wedge - Ford Mustang Forum
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
vetprowanab's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Firestone
Posts: 335
 
GT40X vs AFR vs Twisted Wedge

So, do you think it would be worth the money (after selling off the GT40X heads) and my time to replace my GT40X heads with a pair of Trick Flow Twisted Wedge or AFR 165s?

I installed these GT40x heads back in Jan 09 and I've just never been convinced that they are the answer. I've been trying to gather data (mostly magazine tests - however accurate that may be) to support one way or the other whether it would be worth it to switch them (given my combination) for another set of heads.

Seems like a bit of a gamble since different motors will respond differently to different parts, but I'm curious what you might think.
Thanks y'all.

Sorry in advance for the "which head is the best thread."

1988 LX 5.0 5spd Moonroof
Tri-Ax shifter, CAI, 75mm Granatelli MAF, BBK 70mmTB, 24#, BBK fuel press regulator, RPM II, Cam Research custom, 170 TFS Twisted Wedge heads, 1.7 TFS rockers, Electric fan, A9L, Diablo Revolution chip, MSD 6AL, BBK long tubes, 2.5" X pipe Magnaflows no cats, Auburn 3:73 gears, lowering Ford C springs, bump steer kit, MM CC plates, MM braided hoses, BBK rear control arms, Eibach sway bars, sub frame. Cobra R hood. 10th anni wheels w/245s, 140mph Speedo.
vetprowanab is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009
SHELBY GT 350 Member
5.0L Member
 
89coupe's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Cartersville
Posts: 5,302
 
So you arent happy with a Stock Valve placement head. But are considering AFR 165's which have the same valve placement? Hmmmm?

I would take the Twisted wedges any day of the week.

89 Coupe
347 in progress
89coupe is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
vetprowanab's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Firestone
Posts: 335
 
This is why I ask the question. I'm not an expert in this area. I have read that the GT40x is an old design, the AFR 165 flow way more air and their smaller combustion chambers are good for a N/A motor. Course, I've also read that the TW heads flow more than yet (perhaps due to their bigger valves). Stock valve placement...that is a good point.
Thanks for chiming in!

1988 LX 5.0 5spd Moonroof
Tri-Ax shifter, CAI, 75mm Granatelli MAF, BBK 70mmTB, 24#, BBK fuel press regulator, RPM II, Cam Research custom, 170 TFS Twisted Wedge heads, 1.7 TFS rockers, Electric fan, A9L, Diablo Revolution chip, MSD 6AL, BBK long tubes, 2.5" X pipe Magnaflows no cats, Auburn 3:73 gears, lowering Ford C springs, bump steer kit, MM CC plates, MM braided hoses, BBK rear control arms, Eibach sway bars, sub frame. Cobra R hood. 10th anni wheels w/245s, 140mph Speedo.
vetprowanab is offline  
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009
SHELBY GT-40 ULTIMATE Member
4.6L Member
5.0L Member
 
EagleAutosports's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Graham
Posts: 51,297
               
I think both the AFR and TFS heads would be an upgrade from the X heads, so the battle then becomes between those two.

Best Car & Motorcycle Insurance | Auto/Moto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

AFM Site Administrator
Member: Mustang Club of America #82740, White Mustang Registry #362, NMRA, Fun Ford Weekend, Mustangs of Burlington

MOOG Certified Technician
For mods and sound clips, see profile and gallery.

EagleAutosports is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009
PONY Member
5.0L Member
 
89Fox351's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 422
 
now you've opened up a whole can of opinions!! hopefully you'll actually get some specs to back up what people are saying instead of "this is what i use.. go with these they rock!" with no explanation!

i like AFR, my friend has Twisted Wedge, we both have stroked out 351w based engines, we both put out nearly identical numbers, so i'd say either will be an upgrade!

89 GT- Don't waste your gas
10 Fatboy Lo- Waste your gas if you want.
89Fox351 is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
vetprowanab's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Firestone
Posts: 335
 
Yes, that's the issue. What would either of those newer heads be worth compared to my current GT40x? I mean, if the gain is 10 hp on a street car then it probably isn't worth the cost or my time. However, if the gain is 20-30 rwhp and torque then that's a different animal.

We always talk about buying the best heads you can afford. What does that mean?
Does it mean get the heads that flow the most average air while still being efficient relative to the engine's displacement and desired operating rpm range, plus have an appropriate size combustion chamber?

1988 LX 5.0 5spd Moonroof
Tri-Ax shifter, CAI, 75mm Granatelli MAF, BBK 70mmTB, 24#, BBK fuel press regulator, RPM II, Cam Research custom, 170 TFS Twisted Wedge heads, 1.7 TFS rockers, Electric fan, A9L, Diablo Revolution chip, MSD 6AL, BBK long tubes, 2.5" X pipe Magnaflows no cats, Auburn 3:73 gears, lowering Ford C springs, bump steer kit, MM CC plates, MM braided hoses, BBK rear control arms, Eibach sway bars, sub frame. Cobra R hood. 10th anni wheels w/245s, 140mph Speedo.
vetprowanab is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009
SHELBY GT 350 Member
 
302Feen's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Norman
Posts: 6,939
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
So you arent happy with a Stock Valve placement head. But are considering AFR 165's which have the same valve placement? Hmmmm?

I would take the Twisted wedges any day of the week.
What is wrong with the stock valve placement? You are the second one I've heard say something about that. The other guy is no longer around...

Don't most aftermarket heads use the stock valve placement?

-1994 Mustang GT "The Red Baron": 3.73 gears,K&N filter,GT40 tubular intake,BBK Full Length Headers,modified midpipe & Flowmaster muffs, timing at 12*. Best time- 14.74 @ 93.16
-Check profile for pics of our car collection!
- AmericanMuscle ROCKS!!
- "True Hot-Rods don't have valve covers!"
302Feen is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009
Apprentice
 
acetum's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: phx
Posts: 116
 
Trick Flow Specialties - Twisted Wedge Head - Head Test - Hot Rod

pretty good little article, look at the dyno test...
acetum is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009
SHELBY GT 350 Member
5.0L Member
 
need4spd90's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Mountain Top
Posts: 6,366
 
how bout a nice set of Canfields? :kooky:

1987 Notchback - N/A stock 302, TFS heads, Holley Systemax, FTI cam, Astro A5
Best so far: 10.92 @ 123mph with a 1.49 60ft
need4spd90 is offline  
SHELBY GT 350 Member
5.0L Member
 
89coupe's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Cartersville
Posts: 5,302
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 302Feen View Post
What is wrong with the stock valve placement? You are the second one I've heard say something about that. The other guy is no longer around...

Don't most aftermarket heads use the stock valve placement?
The problem with the stock valve placement heads, is valve shrouding in the chamber and in the bore. The TFS TW valve location is rotated to the center of the bore. This helps out a lot in the shrouding department. The standard valve angle also directs the air into the side of the bore. Where as the TFS TW head have a different angle, that directs the air charge in a more straight shot into the cylinder bore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by need4spd90 View Post
how bout a nice set of Canfields? :kooky:
The Canfields are still a 20° head. But the valves are moved slighty toward the center of the bore. Which make them stand out more than the other 20° heads. But dont count on getting any of the Original Canfields from Canfield. The owner retired, and DSS bought the equipment. Supposedly they will make the same casting, but with there quality standards. Dont expect the same quality head that the Canfields originally were.

89 Coupe
347 in progress
89coupe is offline  
Made Member
 
jsusisaliv's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Knox TN
Posts: 583
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by need4spd90 View Post
how bout a nice set of Canfields? :kooky:

Yeah right need4speed90!
not sure why you are stuck on trick flo or AFR heads? Of course GREAT HEADS but there is so many great brands out there as good if not better and everyone here will have there own opinion and that is all it is. Yes canfield a great head, RHS makes a good head, Edelbrock, World products, Dart "two thumbs up since that is what I run " And the list goes on. I know I have left a ton of great heads off the list but don't be stuck on Trick flo and AFR. Again great heads but if you look around you may find a good deal on some heads at a better deal from another company as good if not better. I have to tell you dart has done me right so I would say go dart of course :nogrinner

408 stroker 4 bolt dart block, novi 2000, Single stage nitrous,dart pro heads, 3-1/2" mac long tubes, All forged eagle internals, blow through custom AED built holley sitting on Edlebrock Super Victor Intake. ford 9 ' W/ 3.73 gears, 5 speed modified tremec TKO 600 by MMR with cryo treated gears W/ spec stage 3 clutch and aluminum flywheel, Front coilovers, Tube k-member with flaming river steering rack, Full AeroMotive fuel system. Snow meth injection and MSD 6AL2
jsusisaliv is offline  
SHELBY GT 350 Member
5.0L Member
 
need4spd90's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Mountain Top
Posts: 6,366
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
The owner retired, and DSS bought the equipment. Supposedly they will make the same casting, but with there quality standards. Dont expect the same quality head that the Canfields originally were.
i guess thats why you see them going for $1k a set(used) these days huh

im sick of the phrase "they dont make em like they used to" holding true to everything anymore..sucks..

1987 Notchback - N/A stock 302, TFS heads, Holley Systemax, FTI cam, Astro A5
Best so far: 10.92 @ 123mph with a 1.49 60ft
need4spd90 is offline  
SHELBY GT 350 Member
5.0L Member
 
89coupe's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Cartersville
Posts: 5,302
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by need4spd90 View Post
i guess thats why you see them going for $1k a set(used) these days huh

im sick of the phrase "they dont make em like they used to" holding true to everything anymore..sucks..

Yup, and unless mine get damaged, I will probably never get rid of them. I think(but not sure), that the castings will be produced over seas(China????). I just hate to see a good ole' Made in the USA product get done like this.

89 Coupe
347 in progress
89coupe is offline  
SHELBY GT 350 Member
5.0L Member
 
need4spd90's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Mountain Top
Posts: 6,366
 
a guy a few miles up the road from me has a nice set of ported Canfield 195's for sale for $1100 OBO..he said they were "supposedly" ported by DSS,which goes along with your statements..he has flow #'s listed in his ad,they move some serious air...

he's a cool kid,i bought a fuel pump from him..if i had the money i'd get these lol
Canfield 195's - PennMustangs

1987 Notchback - N/A stock 302, TFS heads, Holley Systemax, FTI cam, Astro A5
Best so far: 10.92 @ 123mph with a 1.49 60ft
need4spd90 is offline  
SHELBY GT 350 Member
5.0L Member
 
89coupe's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Cartersville
Posts: 5,302
 
Those are the old Canfield castings. Which you can tell by the part number. 20-450-58 means they are the 192cc casting. There were some issues with those heads casting. It was corrected and the new part number was 20-475. Looks like a mild port job was done. Ive seen those flow upwards of 310-315 cfm range with a more eloborate job done.

For those keeping record.

Part number goes like this. 20-450(or 475)-58-1(or 0)

20= Valve Angle
450/475= HP they support
58= size of the combustion chamber
-1 or -0 tell if the chamber was CNC'd or not.

DSS didnt have the tooling then, so the only reason is because someone sent them in to DSS after they left the Canfield company.

Something I found out recently was that if the size of the CC was not in the part number, that it meant that the heads were not finished at Canfield. The heads were shiped out and finished else where.

89 Coupe
347 in progress
89coupe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a VALID email address for yourself, otherwise you will not receive the necessary confirmation email needed to confirm, validate and activate your new AFM member account.

Failure to provide a VALID email address, will result in the cancellation of your new AFM member account registration.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183