I know, I know, 351C - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-29-2010 Thread Starter
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I know, I know, 351C

I know that this subject has probably been done more than once. I have a chance to pick up a 69 351 Cleveland, complete engine builder $150. Now, I also have a 302, with gt40p heads and a b303 cam. Should i stay with the Clevor heads or swap em with the 40p's. Also, will the b303 fit the cleveland?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-29-2010
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i dont that any cleveland parts are interchangable with any windsor parts... but i could be mistaken
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-29-2010
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there was 2 types of cleveland heads 2v & 4v (meaning 2bbl & 4bbl) also closed or open chamber, some (rare) used solid lifters....take some casting numbers and do some research you may or may not like what you find,
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-29-2010
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cleveland heads on a windsor was an old power trick in the 70's and 80's
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-29-2010
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hmmm... never knew that. learn something new every day if the heads are interchangeable does that mean i can take the heads from my old 78 f-350 that has a 400 (which I THINK is a 351c bored over) and put them on my 94 5.0 and make more power???
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-29-2010
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theretically you can make those heads fit too..there was a complete write-up of how in hot-rod magazine heres some info
http://phystutor.tripod.com/stang/engines/cleveland.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-29-2010
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Clevor Engine: Mating 351 Cleveland Heads To 289/302/352W Blocks

Bush Performance Engines Brings Back The Street Boss And Track Boss Intakes For Mating Cleveland Heads To Windsor Blocks
From the July, 2000 issue of Mustang & Fords
Photography by Jim Smart


The most popular, low-buck heads for making power from a small-block Ford are the 351W versions with a nice port job, which makes for a snappy 289/302 without selling the farm. But Bush Performance Engines in Fort Smith, Arkansas, has taken the concept a step further by bringing back the Clevor engine, a package that mates the large intake ports of the 351 Cleveland heads to the 289/302/351W blocks for affordable small-block performance. This is the next step up when 351W heads just don't get it done.

Performing the swap requires some minor machining and a special intake manifold to mate the Cleveland-style heads to the Windsor block. Back in the '80s, B&A Performance offered these manifolds in both Street Boss (dual-plane) and Track Boss (configuration), with versions for the wider 351 Windsor blocks as well, but manifold production was discontinued several years ago. Bush Performance Engines has picked up the rights to produce the manifolds so they are once again available, except for the 351 Street Boss, for building street or track versions of the Clevor small-block.

To understand what it takes to build a 351C-headed small-block Ford, you need to know the differences between the Windsor-style and Cleveland-style engines. Because the 351C employs vastly different cylinder heads, with canted valves, than the 289/302/351W, the pistons are designed for a different combustion chamber. The 351C was available two basic ways: with four-barrel heads with large ports and closed wedge chambers, or with two-barrel heads with smaller ports and open chambers. The 4V heads perform best at high revs, making the most of those huge intake ports and high-compression wedge chambers. It does not make a good street head because torque is available only at high rpm. The 2V heads sport smaller, more street-friendly intake ports and open chambers for lower compression, facts that make the 2V head more useful on the street where good low-end torque is needed. The 2V head was also used on the later 351M and 400M engines.

Heads Of The Pack
When building a Clevor Ford small-block, the 351C-4V head is the best choice only if you're reaching for high revs. This head has huge ports and closed, high-compression wedge chambers. The larger ports work best at high rpm because that's where we have air velocity, which makes torque. Closed chambers yield higher compression ratios, which means power. The 351C-2V head is designed for low-rpm street use. It's perfect for a street driver because the smaller ports provide air velocity at lower engine speeds. Again, air velocity makes torque. The larger, open chambers yield a lower compression ratio for use with today's pump gas. With the right piston, you can achieve 10.0:1 compression with this head.

The Australian Cleveland head offers the best of both worlds--smaller ports (like the 351C-2V head) for low-end torque and closed wedge chambers (like the 351C-4V head) for power increases. Aussie heads are also available from Bush Performance.

Bush Performance modifies 351C heads for installation on the 289/302/351W block, eliminating one water passage while creating another. Bush closes off the 351C water passage between the head and the block. Then a passage is bored in the forward-most part of the head at the intake manifold, which allows coolant to flow to the 289/302/351W manifold and thermostat.

The two 351C head types call for two types of pistons--one for a closed-wedge chamber and another for an open-chamber design. The 351C-4V piston is the same basic slug used in the '69-'70 Boss 302 engine because the Boss head is virtually the same as the 351C-4V head except for water-passage differences. (The '69 Boss 302 was actually the first application, from the factory, of the 351C-4V heads on a Windsor block).
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-29-2010
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that link didnt work... but i started reading up on it as soon as you said it could be done lol. i read something about drilling a hole for water and plugging up the old one or something like that
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-29-2010
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351 cleveland

To my knowledge, the Cleveland debuted in 1970. Is the engine you looking at have a BB Chevy look to the heads? If so, is the intake manifold a 4v or 2v? The 70 4v Cleveland has quench heads for higher compression and gigantic 2.2" intake valves. I have one in my 4.10 toploader Fairlane and it is real fun until 70 mph at 4000 rpm. You need gears to make a 4v Cleveland fun...

Personally, if you are putting this in a Fox or SN95, I would stick with the Windsor and spend my money there. I do not think the 40 yr old tech of the original cleveland heads are going to do much for a 302 windsor.

John
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ok so a lot of stuff online says bush performance engines is very unreliable
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knappster94gt View Post
ok so a lot of stuff online says bush performance engines is very unreliable
I couldnt find the hot rod magazine article (mid-late eighties) thats why I left the bush
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IMO none of those parts are worth using
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Nascar Ford teams have used this type of head for many years. If you used the new alum 351c heads from trick flow or edelbrock you might pick up some h.p. over the conventional windsor mods, but a much higher cost. 190cc trick flow 351c heads are 2095.95 and 225 cc are 2600.00, you will also need some headers at around 800.00 plus an intake. I don't know if the extra cost would be worth it . It would be different.
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