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post #16 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011 Thread Starter
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With the engin off and clutch in i went threw all the gears no problem. However my parking break does not work so when i went into 2nd i took my foot off the break and it started to roll and it would not go all the way in 2nd. I keeped some pressure on the stick and it made the little pop noice that it makes while im driving and i shift into 2nd. So when the engin off and clutch in and rolling it was making a pop noise, kind of like it was half in gear and half not.
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im thinking if it shifts thru the gears without the engine running/trans spinning,then theres no problem with your shifter

the bad thing about the stock shifter is that it has no stops on it,so if someone in the past was really banging thru the gears,you can actually move the shifter "too far" and bend the shift forks and make the sliders basically overshoot the gear..so theoretically,it could be a bent shift fork not properly engaging the gears,but my money is still on the snychros being worn out with 166k on the clock

1987 Notchback - N/A stock 302, TFS heads, Holley Systemax, FTI cam, Astro A5
Best so far: 10.92 @ 123mph with a 1.49 60ft
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don't downshift into first...most people try to slow the car down by down shifting (including myself sometimes if I'm not paying attention), bad idea!!!! everytime you downshift it puts stress/wear on the disc, replacing brake pads is cheaper than replacing a disc/clutch kit. Not sure what your problem is I did have a similar problem with my '89 (currently down), so I never got around to fixing it, mine would pop out of second if I would downshift to turn sometimes.

1990 convertible, BBK CAI, Aluminum radiator, high-flow water pump, Tri-Ax short shifter, adjustable clutch cable with aluminum quadrant. In the garage working on the turbo kit.

1989 Hatchback, BBK CAI, BBK equal lenght headers, aluminum radiator, high-flow water pump, aluminm driveshaft, short shifter, off road h-pipe and 44 flowmasters. Daily driver...getting 19 mpg YAYA!!!
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post #19 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Thank you for the feedback. I think its time that i face the music and accept that is going to be bad syncrohs. New this would have to be done one day just didnt think i would have to do it days after buying the car.

Also i have been told a few times on here now not to shift into 1st while moving, only while at a complet stop. Cant get an answer on that. Wondering if you could tell me why? Like i have said before all my cars have been stick my whole life and i have always downshifted into 1st. I currently have a 99 honda accord with a 5 speed standard as a daily driver, should i not be down shifting into 1st that as well or is that just for the mustang?
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Originally Posted by need4spd90 View Post
The bad thing about the stock shifter is that it has no stops on it,so if someone in the past was really banging thru the gears,you can actually move the shifter "too far" and bend the shift forks and make the sliders basically overshoot the gear...
At the risk of sounding "snippy" I want to say that I disagree, and in my opinion, this is one of the many "Internet Myths" about the T-5.

Here is why:

The T-5 HAS a positive stop under the shifter block in the tail housing that cannot allow the shifter to over-travel the forks.

There is, in fact, no need for the adjustable stops on an aftermarket shifter. Mis-adjusted aftermarket stops cause perfectly good transmissions to jump out of gear or grind and damage the gears and synchros.

Now, over-travel of the synchro slider does happen in a T-5. Particularly in the 3-4 synchro, and when it does, it is catastrophic to the keys in the synchro. It is easy to make this happen by hand on the workbench with the top cover removed, but if the fork has good pads on it and there is no excessive play in the input shaft/main shaft bearings, this should never happen with an assembled T-5.

The design of the aftermarket billet 3-4 keys are less likely to get jammed if there is some over-travel.

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interesting..i just rebuilt mine last month,i had only one pad damaged,which i attributed to powershifting with the stock shifter for the past few years at the track..the shift fork had a slight rounded wear mark around the half moon shaped part of it,presumably from the slider wearing on it cuz of the one damaged pad

i also replaced the 3rd gear cuz the dog teeth were a bit ground down,and there was also what appeared to be some damage along the edge of the main teeth..heres a pic of my 3rd gear..what would cause those "chip" marks on the edge of the main teeth? i assumed it was the slider over-engaging?
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m...0/gears007.jpg

1987 Notchback - N/A stock 302, TFS heads, Holley Systemax, FTI cam, Astro A5
Best so far: 10.92 @ 123mph with a 1.49 60ft
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interesting..i just rebuilt mine last month,i had only one pad damaged,which i attributed to powershifting with the stock shifter for the past few years at the track..the shift fork had a slight rounded wear mark around the half moon shaped part of it,presumably from the slider wearing on it cuz of the one damaged pad.
Right. powershifting is tough on forks and murder on the pads. Once a pad is gone, the fork rubs metal to metal on the slider. Without the pad, there is also more room for the slider to over-travel. All of this applies with or without an aftermarket shifter.

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i also replaced the 3rd gear cuz the dog teeth were a bit ground down,and there was also what appeared to be some damage along the edge of the main teeth..heres a pic of my 3rd gear..what would cause those "chip" marks on the edge of the main teeth? i assumed it was the slider over-engaging?
Interesting observation. The slider wouldn't chip third because it would hit flush, if it hit at all. The engagement teeth would have already matched the speed before it bottomed out. Just a flat-slap!

If you are seeing the tiny bevel on the tips if the teeth right at the corner, I just picked up 4 third gears laying around and they seem to be made that way!

I rather think you are talking about the edge of the face of the teeth where it seems chipped. I can't difinitively explain those little chips. As I said above, I don't think the slider can do that. I suppose if the third gear and counter gear weren't exactly aligned, there might be some stress at the edge when banging gears that might let it chip a little. If so, there might be a little matching damage on the counter gear.

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post #23 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Speace, kind of threw me for a little loop there. So are you saying that my problem could be with the shifter?

Also i have been told 2 times now not to down shift into 1st. Why is that? I understand what down shifting does/ment for but I have always down shifted into 1st. Now i am being told that thats a bad thing to do and to only shift into 1st when at a complet stop. Just want to know why this is bad and if this is something just for the mustang or if that goes for every car
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Speace, kind of threw me for a little loop there. So are you saying that my problem could be with the shifter?

Also i have been told 2 times now not to down shift into 1st. Why is that? I understand what down shifting does/ment for but I have always down shifted into 1st. Now i am being told that thats a bad thing to do and to only shift into 1st when at a complet stop. Just want to know why this is bad and if this is something just for the mustang or if that goes for every car
No, not the shiftrer itself. There is probably a lot of wear in the synchro slider, fork pads/forks, engagement teeth and synchro rings. What you describe isn't unusual for a high-miles T-5 needing a rebuild...

The first and second synchros are identical parts. First has a pretty strong synchro, but any time there is a stark difference in RPM the synchro (blocker rings) have to work hard to put the "brakes" on the spinning gear. These linings wear sort of like the linings on the brakes. The more they work, the quicker they wear. There is a lot less wear going into first at zero MPH vs 20 MPH. To gear down, but put less stress on the synchro try easing into the gear. When the shifter hits some resistance, hold it there a bit and let the synchro speed up the gear until it goes on in easily. Years ago manual transmissions were made without synchros for first gear at all. This was the case when I learned to drive a stick.

Just last month, Tremec released a redesigned 3-piece synchro ring set for first and second gears. These new rings have carbon particles as the lining rather than the paper, or fabric that was previously used. This new design should work better and last longer, but things will still last longer if you wait until the car is going pretty slow, or stopped before putting it into first.

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Interesting observation. The slider wouldn't chip third because it would hit flush, if it hit at all. The engagement teeth would have already matched the speed before it bottomed out. Just a flat-slap!

If you are seeing the tiny bevel on the tips if the teeth right at the corner, I just picked up 4 third gears laying around and they seem to be made that way!

I rather think you are talking about the edge of the face of the teeth where it seems chipped. I can't difinitively explain those little chips. As I said above, I don't think the slider can do that. I suppose if the third gear and counter gear weren't exactly aligned, there might be some stress at the edge when banging gears that might let it chip a little. If so, there might be a little matching damage on the counter gear.
right, i wasnt talking about the bevel just the small chips..the brand new 3rd gear had the bevel on it too..the gear on the countershaft looked to be in absolutely perfect shape,as did the rest of the gears..this is from a 1352-208 trans from my 92 lx convertible..it had over 100k miles and probably around 350 powershifted passes on it..never been opened up..nothing even broke,just worn out..3rd gear synchro in particular..grinding then clunking its way into 3rd..i probably could have re-used the 3rd gear, but figured why risk it..

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Just last month, Tremec released a redesigned 3-piece synchro ring set for first and second gears. These new rings have carbon particles as the lining rather than the paper, or fabric that was previously used. This new design should work better and last longer, but things will still last longer if you wait until the car is going pretty slow, or stopped before putting it into first.
damn, wish i would have waited two weeks to order my parts lol..mine has the carbon linings for the 3-4, but just the standard fibers for the 1 & 2

i replaced all the bearing,blocker ringers,small parts,etc..also added an all steel input bearing retainer and a billet steel cluster support plate..dont know how much they'll help,if any at all,when it comes to helping hold up to the abuse i put it thru,but figured might as well while i was in there..any thoughts on that?

1987 Notchback - N/A stock 302, TFS heads, Holley Systemax, FTI cam, Astro A5
Best so far: 10.92 @ 123mph with a 1.49 60ft
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i replaced all the bearing,blocker ringers,small parts,etc..also added an all steel input bearing retainer and a billet steel cluster support plate..dont know how much they'll help,if any at all,when it comes to helping hold up to the abuse i put it thru,but figured might as well while i was in there..any thoughts on that?
Almost all T-5s need a second gear and a 1-2 slider due to rounded off engagement teeth. I didn't read that you replaced those. The new blocker rings will delay the need for those a bit if they are getting worn. Otherwise, it soulde like a typical rebuild.

Ok, the billet counter gear support plate...
While there is merit for this plate, most of what is said about it is again, in my opinion, Internet Myth.

People say the T-5 case is weak and can split. I want to see a picture of a T-5 case somewhere that split from over-powering it, and I want to know how much power it took to do it! The only broken T-5 cases I've seen have been from outside stresses and impacts.

The actual weakness of the T-5 case is in that the rear countershaft bearing race is only supported by the thin aluminum rear wall of the main case. Under racing conditions, this race spins in the case and wallows out the bore for the race. Some years ago, Paul, at 5speeds.com wanted to solve this issue on the T-5s that he was racing and came up with the billet steel plate. If you notice, that race sticks out the rear of the case just a bit and the support cups over the rear of the race. If the race spins, it will then be steel against steel and it won't wallow out so quickly. These plates have been copied by many people. Be sure that the plate is no thicker than 0.50 inches, or it may rub the face of the fifth gear... Paul laughs at people that make them out of aluminum, saying that they will wear out just as quickly as the stock bore.

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well..i need to take the tail housing back off anyway,so i can check for any wear marks on the steel plate/5gear

i reused the retaining clip for the stupid speedo drive gear,and wouldnt ya know,it broke after 3 weeks...now the VSS isnt getting nay signal,code 29 showing,and random stalling during deceleration..pain in the ass

mine has the 8 tooth gear,and i was using a 23T cable gear,(3.73 rear)which as im sure you know,get chewed to shreds constantly..i have a 6 and 7 tooth gear here,so im going to swap in the 6T drive gear and an 18T cable gear..i figured i'd go with the 6T cuz it allows for correction up 4.30 ring&pinion i believe with a 21T cable gear..

the 7T gear uses the 21T cable gear for 3.73's,so thats the deepest rear gear it will correct for,and i cant ever see myself using anything less than a 3.73 rear..

i didnt see anything wrong with the 2nd gear or slider,even before the rebuild, the 1-2 shift was smooth,so i didnt replace at this time..i'll be sure to check next time..im sure there will be a next time lol

on a side note..t-5 from a 99 v6 mustang have the same internals as the 1352-208 t-5? i know the issues with the NGS,input shaft and swapping the tail housing due to the newer t-5's using the electric speedo..but i can get one for free,and was thinking i could use the gearbox as a spare...so basically,is the gerabox itself interchangeable with the trans i have?

1987 Notchback - N/A stock 302, TFS heads, Holley Systemax, FTI cam, Astro A5
Best so far: 10.92 @ 123mph with a 1.49 60ft
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i figured i'd go with the 6T cuz it allows for correction up 4.30 ring&pinion i believe with a 21T cable gear..

on a side note..t-5 from a 99 v6 mustang have the same internals as the 1352-208 t-5? i know the issues with the NGS,input shaft and swapping the tail housing due to the newer t-5's using the electric speedo..but i can get one for free,and was thinking i could use the gearbox as a spare...so basically,is the gerabox itself interchangeable with the trans i have?
SORRY HOGAN, WE'VE HIJACKED YOUR THREAD!

Yes, some of those speedo clips like to lose their tension and collapse. Indeed, change the gear out for the black 6-t.

The 99-04 1352-260 V6 T-5 has ALL the same internal gears as a 94/95 V8 T-5. That input shaft can be swapped out with a FOX shaft, and so, that transmission can be converted to a FOX. The 1352-208 is a 92/93 FOX T-5, and yes, these internals are also the same other than the input shaft length and tail housing/speedo gear setup. The hard part is that the main shaft has no hole in it to anchor that speedometer gear clip. There are various tricks people do to anchor it, but, those are the only differences. For free??? GRAB IT!

On an SN-95, one can just install the -260 as-is, fiddle with the cross member, as it is in a slightly differnt location, and use a Dallas Speed-Cal to convert the OSS Speedometer signal to a VSS signal. The speed-cal won't work with a FOX Body because they need a cable-driven speedometer, but it will work for a 94-98 T-5 swap.

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SORRY HOGAN, WE'VE HIJACKED YOUR THREAD!
and a damn fine job we've done,too...

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Yes, some of those speedo clips like to lose their tension and collapse. Indeed, change the gear out for the black 6-t.

The 99-04 1352-260 V6 T-5 has ALL the same internal gears as a 94/95 V8 T-5. That input shaft can be swapped out with a FOX shaft, and so, that transmission can be converted to a FOX. The 1352-208 is a 92/93 FOX T-5, and yes, these internals are also the same other than the input shaft length and tail housing/speedo gear setup. The hard part is that the main shaft has no hole in it to anchor that speedometer gear clip. There are various tricks people do to anchor it, but, those are the only differences. For free??? GRAB IT!
sooo...what kinda tricks are we talking here to attach the drive gear?

i'm assuming drilling your own hole isnt advisable?


and yeah for free..buddy has it laying in his garage,said i could have it for a spare..i figure i could find a 92-95 tail housing and input shaft fairly cheap..he bought a cheap v6 car to gut and turn into a drag car

the tail housing will have to have that notch cuz this v6 one has the "reverse brake" deal with the 2 brass rings and that tab that sticks out,like my 1352-208, right?

1987 Notchback - N/A stock 302, TFS heads, Holley Systemax, FTI cam, Astro A5
Best so far: 10.92 @ 123mph with a 1.49 60ft
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sooo...what kinda tricks are we talking here to attach the drive gear?

i'm assuming drilling your own hole isnt advisable?
I modified one, but sent the bare shaft to a machinist to machine the hole in it. If you are going to tear it down, you can do this, or just put it back together on a pre-99 shaft.

The metal is too hard for your drill bit. A grinding stone in a high speed dremel, or die grinder might do it.

I read a post on a website where someone touted making a groove by cuting across the shaft with a cutoff tool where the hole would be and using that to anchor the clip. I would think the clip would rotate and climb out. If I were to try that, I would cut the groove length-wise in the shaft, then fill it with JB-Weld, leaving just the hole, or perhaps, fill the whole thing and then drill out the hole...
The hole does not go in the center of the raised area like the older shaft, but the location needs to be measured. In my picture, the two holes appear not to be in the same place, but they are carefully measured and exact... The lower shaft was the one that was modified.

The bad speedometer clip is the upper one in the photo of the two clips.

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the tail housing will have to have that notch cuz this v6 one has the "reverse brake" deal with the 2 brass rings and that tab that sticks out,like my 1352-208, right?
Exactly! The notch is required if you have the reverse brake. The housing on the right is for a 92-98 T-5 with the notch for the reverse brake tab. All Mustang T-5s made since 1992 have the reverse brake EXCEPT the T5Z. The T5Z units generally have the right tail housing, but none of the other parts are there.
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