maxxx..the 190 sts needs to good a 180 is what you need also a pusher fan will help cooler the engine as will taking 1-2 degrees of time out of it...I good thing is header wraps will help about 30 degree under the hoods also use syth oil and a water wetter from red line
I have FMS underdrive pullies with stock alternator pulley on. My alternator went out (dunno if from pulleys or from my system). Had it rebuild to stock. I have a new waterpump (ford), new clutch fan (ford) and water wetter in my stock raditor. I live in Dallas 100+ degrees for oh about 60 days straight in the summer. I don't have a problem with cooling or charging anymore.
Speding a grand to get 50hp seems abit high for the first round of mods. If this is for street application, and not street racing application, the exhaust, cold air intake , TB up grades seem enough for one season. I think over the life of of the car, you shopuld do all the things mentioned. If money is a problem, heads are on the 05 x-mas list.
Originally posted by vfast1 maxxx..the 190 sts needs to good a 180 is what you need also a pusher fan will help cooler the engine as will taking 1-2 degrees of time out of it...I good thing is header wraps will help about 30 degree under the hoods also use syth oil and a water wetter from red line
Yeah, I know I need a 180 thermostat, but a pusher fan won't fit in front of my A/C condensor, and being supercharged, taking timing out is not the answer for my application. Header wraps look like crap in a matter of minutes. I'm sure they work, but no thanks. Synthetic oil will happen when my new motor goes in. The one I have now with 221,000 miles on it and 12-lbs of boost cannot hold 20/50 and Bardahl "No Smoke" since it loses about a quart of oil every 50 miles now...
I swear by the Redline Water Wetter product, since I have used it and it does work!
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"Mad" Max
1992 LX, thanks to Chicane Sport Tuning and some friends.. it is now wrapped with new graphics and ready to hit the streets AGAIN!!!!
BTW Headers are a waste of money IF you dont bore the cylinders. Some real knowledgable engine builder/racers have told me this. In their opinion, cat-back exhaust and performance chip, cam, are the best way to wake up the motor. Unless you open the the cylinders to evacuate more air, what would be the point? Also, they know why the alternator bearings quite. The belt tensioner is so tight the load on the bearing is too high.
Originally posted by saleen'd BTW Headers are a waste of money IF you dont bore the cylinders.
Headers are not a waste of money... If you cannot afford to bore the cylinders, you can still appreciate the difference in mileage and performance. If you bore your motor, you will notice more of a gain, and especially if you have a performance adder, such as nitrous or a blower, will you notice it even more.
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"Mad" Max
1992 LX, thanks to Chicane Sport Tuning and some friends.. it is now wrapped with new graphics and ready to hit the streets AGAIN!!!!
Depending on your application, the factory exhaust manifold/header is usually NOT mandrel bent, thus restricting the exhaust flow after the cylinder head. Installing a good set of headers can improve the flow after the head, thus increasing performance and mileage. Why is it that installing headers and cat-back increases mileage and performance without porting the heads? Since you wanted to be specific. Every engine builder and racer has their own way of doing things. These things might not work on a daily-driven street application, so use your best judgement when hearing a "good" idea. Most of these guys are tirturing their race cars for a few minutes at a time and tearing down between each season. We, for the most part, are driving our cars every day. If you have a "green" block 302, there really isn't much you can do after .030-over and if you do, you're only asking for trouble, creating more friction=more heat and more chance of detontation and cylinder wall failure, due to lack of thickness between the cylinders.
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"Mad" Max
1992 LX, thanks to Chicane Sport Tuning and some friends.. it is now wrapped with new graphics and ready to hit the streets AGAIN!!!!
BTW Headers are a waste of money IF you dont bore the cylinders. Some real knowledgable engine builder/racers have told me this. In their opinion, cat-back exhaust and performance chip, cam, are the best way to wake up the motor. Unless you open the the cylinders to evacuate more air, what would be the point? Also, they know why the alternator bearings quite. The belt tensioner is so tight the load on the bearing is too high.
Where do you get your information? If you bore a 302 0.030 over, you gain a whopping 4 cubic inches. 4 cubic inches divided by 8 cylinders=1/2 cubic inch per cylinder, and would increase the engine displacement by 1.3%. Headers are just part of the equation. Ford factory headers on the 1985-93 (yes, I know that the 1985 headers are unique) were very crimped for standard sized bolts and were an air flow issue from day one.
Headers are not a waste of money... If you cannot afford to bore the cylinders, you can still appreciate the difference in mileage and performance. If you bore your motor, you will notice more of a gain, and especially if you have a performance adder, such as nitrous or a blower, will you notice it even more.
Please explain how the added friction of the larger bore will be offsetted by an increase of 1.3% of displacement.
Please explain how the added friction of the larger bore will be offsetted by an increase of 1.3% of displacement.
Any time you increase displacement, you are increasing volume and torque. Remember the phrase, "There's no substitute for cubic inches." Add a better free-flowing exhaust than factory, better (less restrictive mufflers) and you will notice a difference in mileage and performance. It's not mind-blowing gain, but a gain nontheless. It has been documented that adding headers alone will give you a gain on a stock 5.0, as well. As far as numbers go, it will vary depending on which dyno you make the pulls on and climate. I noticed and documented a substantial gain in mileage and performance by adding headers and cat-back to my then Paxton supercharged (SN-92 blower with 6-lbs. of boost). I was able to drive the car for long durations at 65mph and wrote down the mileage every time I filled up and worked out an average for the mileage over the course of a week. I took the car to the track before and after and documented the 1/4-mile gains and wrote articles in Fabulous Mustangs and Popular Hot Rodding magazines back in 1993.
Does this answer your questions?
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"Mad" Max
1992 LX, thanks to Chicane Sport Tuning and some friends.. it is now wrapped with new graphics and ready to hit the streets AGAIN!!!!
Dont get me wrong, I own a set of Headmen Headers and they give me a strange sense of peace of mind, however, I wish the money was better spent.
dude;headers are not a peace of mind unless you agree that they allow the engine to breathe better,increase performance and add torque(when installed with the correct diameter pipe sizes).to say that just adding cat-back exhaust will suffice contradicts your statement that headers dont make a difference.
if you dont believe headers make a difference,why change your mufflers?unless your just into sound.the improvement your gonna get from just mufflers is minimal compared to the improvement you get from a good set of headers.the bottom line is all exhaust components work together. headers, h- pipes and good quality mufflers is whats going to allow for increased power,fuel efficiency,cooler running engines and overall performance not to mention the importance of pipe diameter size(depending on the application).do you just change a throttle body and not ever change the stock intake ? you will see some improvement but its quite minimal until you change that intake.dude theres nothing more important than induction and exhaust,they both work together so if your working on exhaust dont half stepit,that cam that intake that throttle body that air meter that set of heads that hard earned money is all worth nothing if all your motor can do is inhale and not exhale.the purchase of a good set of headers is always money well spent.
Any time you increase displacement, you are increasing volume and torque. Remember the phrase, "There's no substitute for cubic inches." Add a better free-flowing exhaust than factory, better (less restrictive mufflers) and you will notice a difference in mileage and performance. It's not mind-blowing gain, but a gain nontheless. It has been documented that adding headers alone will give you a gain on a stock 5.0, as well. As far as numbers go, it will vary depending on which dyno you make the pulls on and climate. I noticed and documented a substantial gain in mileage and performance by adding headers and cat-back to my then Paxton supercharged (SN-92 blower with 6-lbs. of boost). I was able to drive the car for long durations at 65mph and wrote down the mileage every time I filled up and worked out an average for the mileage over the course of a week. I took the car to the track before and after and documented the 1/4-mile gains and wrote articles in Fabulous Mustangs and Popular Hot Rodding magazines back in 1993.
Does this answer your questions?
Maxxed, this is a fine, but I never argued with you about headers, in fact I backed you up. However, the thinner walls and extra friction of boring an engine 0.030 inches over really will negate the increase of engine size. I have built many engines and have seen quite a few that run better on a standard bore. I just sleeved back a FE for better performance. The reason why people think that such a small increase of displacement will help out so much is that when a good engine builder does that, they take more time than the factory, use better parts, and build a better engine. The same results can be achieved on a standard bore engine.
