A 69 or 70 block would work just fine and will yield more compression than a later style block ,and has heavier main webbing area. I would recommend using a good main stud girdle also.
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65 coupe - parts cabinet, next on list! (wifes car)
69 fastback - awaiting restoration, STILL!
69 coupe - long-rod 289 done, finish fine tuning when snows gone!
82 GT - 306 long rod engine project, just starting on motor build.
84 GT -money pit street car project thats donating parts to 82 GT this spring!!!
So does anybody know what the thicknesses, widths, and heights of each main bulkhead for both the '69-'70 and '71-'96 production blocks are? I see six of one and half-dozen of the other when it comes to conjecture of which year block is stronger than the next.
If you're that worried about it, you ought to be doing something about it instead of seeing how far you can stretch it, and may end up lunching your engine in the end.
Nope, there isn't any difference between 4-bolt and 2-bolt. I use to think that there was like you guys. But I build custom hot rods, I've seen all kinds of engines come in and out of the shop, and one of my bosses' cars really impressed me. When he was liked 16 or whatever, his dad had a 65 Mustang, I believe we're all familiar with Mustangs are we not? He had a 289 in there, and they'd race a 69 Boss 429(I believe that's the correct year, I know the vehicle had a Boss 429-equipped)every weekend, and it would be dead-even every time. I believe both are 2-bolt mains, but the point is, there's nothing you can't do with a 2-bolt to make it as good as a 4-bolt. They had the heads modified for big block Chevy valves and other mods, and this thing would just fly. I've seen just about all engines made cept for the rare ones like the 427 SOHC and the Ford Cammer, but it's a mutual agreement between everyone I race with and the guys I build hot rods with. We've all seen them and most of us owned them. Especially my boss, who has built engines since he was old enough to pick up a wrench and he's 51 now. This guy can tell you every fact about every classic and antique cars. He knows all the dimensions for frames and all that. I mean come on, when you do this stuff every day, you pick up more than a thing or 2. I'd be able to give you much more facts, but I don't do the engine work, I do body and frame work. But my boss who does the engine work is the most reliable source I've ever come across. And I know from my own experience because I'm pretty handy with an engine, it's just I don't know nearly what my boss does. He has built plenty of pro-stock drag cars before with 2-bolt mains. In fact we have a 41 Willy's coming in soon that will have a blown big block Chevy. There are all kinds of dragsters, stock cars, funny car's, etc. etc. that run 2-bolt mains. It's just a misconception. One person believes it, and tell the next fellow, and then everyone believes it without actually lining them up side by side. Also, facts only take you so far, but not nearly as far as experience will take you.
Also, tkm, you may be right, I've never dealt with a 393 stroker, but there's a lot of cubes difference between a 355 and a 393.
__________________
Gasoline is for washing parts.
Alcohol is for drinking.
Nitro is for kickin ass!
1967 Mustang Coupe
R.I.P. Darrell Russell 1968-2004 The racing world has lost a great racer.
Yeah the difference is .350" on the stroke of the crank which is nothing considering a 4" stroke 454 can rev 7500rpm all day when done right !
A 429 Boss was a 6 bolt main, 4 bolts in the block and 2 side bolts
As for the 289 being even with the Boss 429 well the only reason would be the weight difference or the 429 Boss was bone stock and the 289 fully built:thumbsup
You are right about people putting too much emphasis on 4 bolt blocks
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Tom...TK Race Heads...www.tkrace.com
Porting...Flowbench...14 NHRA Records
1-888-920-0094 ext 306
Thank you tkm, it's good to have some back-up. And though the Boss 429 is a much bigger engine, there is no replacement for displacement. I mean, my friend running a 565 in his 64 Bel-Air, that thing is nothing short of HEAVY. The car alone is a boat, not to mention that monster engine in there.
But the point that tkm made of the Boss 429's being 6-bolt mains further proves my point. 6-bolt vs. 2-bolt.
__________________
Gasoline is for washing parts.
Alcohol is for drinking.
Nitro is for kickin ass!
1967 Mustang Coupe
R.I.P. Darrell Russell 1968-2004 The racing world has lost a great racer.
I think for long term durability I'll still go with the 4 bolt. What yawl are talking about is strictly the difference between the two in racing applications. What I am looking for is a good strong engine that will last 10 or 15 years with some major abuse. Check it out I know a guy that has a 1978 F100 with a 400 Cleveland (4 bolt main) that has 582,000 miles on the original engine. The only thing he has done with it is change a head gasket. Seeing is believing as far as I'm concerned!
Dude have you seen the 4 bolt 400 clevland cause if you did then ask him to buy it and call Ford to say you have cause I'm sure Ford would love to see it too since they never ever made one
Getting back to the 2 , 4 bolt wether you have 2 or 4 bolt mains doesn't make the engine last longer , for example 580 hp on a sportman block which is 2 bolt and its going on 5 yrs of 8000rpm shifts and no signs of cracks or any other myth about 2 bolt blocks
__________________
Tom...TK Race Heads...www.tkrace.com
Porting...Flowbench...14 NHRA Records
1-888-920-0094 ext 306
And a "Sportsman" block of that vintage is actually a brand new block that has thicker main bulkheads and larger main caps. That might have something to do with it. You already have a better-than-production block. Apples to oranges. The 'newer' (since ~'00) "Sportsman" blocks are nothing more than remanufactured (overbored .030") stock blocks with nodular iron caps.
I don't want to hear anybody say a production two-bolt-main block will withstand the power a four-bolt-main and six-bolt-main block will. They won't. They can't. Period. Girdles and filler are bandaids for flexing bulkheads and not-so-thick caps.
Well you're hearing me say it. I build custom hot rods, blown big blocks to daily-driven V6's. And I'm saying it, 2-bolt mains are JUST as good as 4-bolt mains. My boss has been doing this since most of us were born and he's seen, owned, and driven almost every engine out there. There may be a durability difference, but if you're expecting to run a 4-bolt main with abuse for 10-15 years, you're in for a rude-awakening. You'll have to send it in to be freshened somewhere in that period, trust me. Or you'll screw somethin up, one way or another. You can go down easy or you can go down hard, it's your choice.
Also, tkm, lol, take it easy on him, I believe he means the 400 Midland. We all make mistakes.
__________________
Gasoline is for washing parts.
Alcohol is for drinking.
Nitro is for kickin ass!
1967 Mustang Coupe
R.I.P. Darrell Russell 1968-2004 The racing world has lost a great racer.
There is a durability difference. If two-bolt-main blocks are so freaking strong, why did Ford even bother making four-bolt-main and six-bolt-main blocks at all? Four-bolt-main and six-bolts-main blocks weren't produced for no good reason. It is IMPOSSIBLE for only two bolts (per main bulkhead) to keep the bulkheads from flexing at VERY HIGH power (torque as well, not just horsepower) levels.
I want to see a production two-bolt-main block (any production block, take your pick - "Sportsman" blocks ARE NOT production, except as noted above) handle say 600, 700, 800,... HP, without block filler and without a main girdle, (what do you think the girdle is for anyway? - to PREVENT the bulkheads from flexing so much by tying the caps/bulkheads together) and not split right in half, waste bearings, score journals, blow head gaskets, or any other minor or catastrophic failure.
I don't believe any production "385 Series/Family" block (370 (truck), 429, 460) ever had six-bolt-mains. As a matter of fact, I believe the only six-bolt-main block was/is the DOHC modular block.
The "335 Series/Family" includes 302C (Aussie), 351C, 351M (M is not Midland), and 400 (not 400M).
Foxchassis, what does the 335 series/family stand for. Does that mean 4 bolt main?....I do not claim to bea big engine expert like you guys, but one has to start, learn somewhere right. Anyways I have run this around in my head and it seems like logic would say the 4 bolt main is stronger. You have 4 bolts instead of the 2. Anyways I know that no one is putting down the 2 bolt just because they think the 4 bolt is better. It could be that the 2 bolt is good enough for just about any application and the 4 bolt is overkill. Put Foxchassis 600, 700, 800 hp into the equation and thats probely where you will see your difference; but for the street nobody needs that much Hp so they are about the same. If any of you get 5.0 magizine look at the august issue and check out Phil Rivers 351 stang. He runs a 351 windsor and says in the article that the engine is pretty much bullet proof. Anways this guy is good and if he runs a windsor it is ok for anyone. I know this guy personally he works at the local performance shop and hooks me up with my parts.
Originally posted by SALEEN-910026 What does the 335 series/family stand for?
It's just the name of a engine series or an engine family (detailed below) whereas "series" or "family" means a group of engines which share a similiar design and in many cases share similar parts (cranks, rods, heads, intakes, flywheels, oil pans, mounts, bellhousings, etc). It has nothing to do with how many main-cap bolts there are. In fact, some blocks that are thought to have been made with four-bolt-mains only have indeed been produced with only two at one time or another. You'll have to do the research, just as I did, if you really want to know which ones.
Some of the following series/families and or engine in a particular series/family you may or may not heard of and that is because some engines were only available for a couple of years, only available in certain car lines and or models, only available in trucks or industrial equipment or only available in other countries (than US). And as time goes on, I learn more and more, so do not take the following information as being chiseled in stone or complete in any way.
The "335 Series" engine family comprises of 351C, 351M, and 400 and Aussie 302C and 351C.
The "385 Series" engine family comprises of 370, 429, and 460.
The "FE" (Ford Edsel) engine family comprises of 332, 352, 360, 361, 390, 391, 406, 410, 427, and 428.
The "Lincoln" engine family comprises of 317, 341, and 368.
The "MEL" (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) engine family comprises of 383, 410, 430, and 462.
The "Windsor" engine family comprises of 221, 255, 260, 289, 302, and 351W.
The "Y-block" (Y being the block's shape) engine family comprises of 239, 256, 272, 292, and 312.
