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Unread 04-17-2010   #1 (permalink)
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Default Rebuild or replace power window motors in 1989 Mustang GT

Hey all!

My passenger side power window (89 GT) is acting up. It will roll down well enough, but when I go to roll it up, it's sketchy at best. It won't respond immediately. With the button depressed, the motor won't run, but the battery guage in the dash registers a dip, indicating there is power being applied to the motor. If I hold the button for a while, sometimes it will respond, or sometimes I need to tap the switch repeatedly to get it to work. Once it moves, it's fine, going up or down. It's only when I leave it down for more than 5 minutes that it starts misbehaving.

Is this an electrical demon, or is it the motor itself? If it's the motor, can I rebuild it with the eBay kit, or do I have to replace the motor?
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Unread 04-17-2010   #2 (permalink)
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its much easier to just replace it because the brushes in the motor are probably toast...also check that the glass is not binding up on the old window channel rubber they are probably due for replacement.
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Unread 04-17-2010   #3 (permalink)
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I was afraid someone would come out and say that. My options, as far as I know are:

1) Buy a motor from Ford (assuming they still carry them, which they probably don't) and pay some outrageous, rediculous price.

2) Buy a used one, pay less, and have the same problem happen again in a couple months or a year.

3) Buy a replacement non-OEM motor, and get a way-too-loud shabbily-made hunk of crap that will last a year at most.

Is there another option, or are there replacements that are actually close to OEM specs in quality? Can one open up the existing motor, replace the torque bushings and the brushes (are brushes available?) and have a working like-new motor? Or are the main bodies of these things sealed up like Fort Knox?
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Unread 04-18-2010   #4 (permalink)
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*bump*

Anyone know?
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Unread 04-18-2010   #5 (permalink)
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cj pony carries motors...but most of the time its best to replace motor and the regulator at the same time
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Unread 04-20-2010   #6 (permalink)
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Sooo... There's no way to do this that might be more economically pleasant than coughing up $160 for two new motors plus whatever the regulators happen to go for (the regulators seem to be very rare)?

I've always been the kind of guy that would rather pay for parts and fix something than just swap it out. A bit of that is just plain being cheap, but I also like to see what makes things tick. This situation doesn't lend itself to that way of doing things?
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Unread 04-20-2010   #7 (permalink)
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chance's are it is just the tork buttons inside the gears, you have to pull the motor out either way. pull it out and open the plate were the gear is, usuall it is just the three buttons that need to be replaced but sometime the the plastic gear is broken to. if its the buttons they cost about 5 bucks, if you need the gear and buttons its about 15 bucks. ive done a bunch of them and ive never had to replace a motor yet. a lot of people never even check the plastic gear and tork buttons.
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Unread 04-20-2010   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90taz View Post
chance's are it is just the tork buttons inside the gears, you have to pull the motor out either way. pull it out and open the plate were the gear is, usuall it is just the three buttons that need to be replaced but sometime the the plastic gear is broken to. if its the buttons they cost about 5 bucks, if you need the gear and buttons its about 15 bucks. ive done a bunch of them and ive never had to replace a motor yet. a lot of people never even check the plastic gear and tork buttons.
Yeah, I saw the rebuild kits on ebay that include the torque bushings and show you how to do it, but I wasn't sure if the symptoms I described would point to worn bushings or a worn out motor, bad brushes, etc. I don't hear any grinding or motor noise or anything, it just doesn't respond to pushing the button. If I look at the battery guage in the dash, the needle dips a little, so I know the electrical circuit is good...

Wait, if the brushes were shot, the battery guage wouldn't dip because a connection inside the motor is not being made, right? If that's the case, it WOULD point to the torque bushings hanging up, correct?
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Unread 04-20-2010   #9 (permalink)
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replace them they are 21 years old.....
 
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Unread 04-21-2010   #10 (permalink)
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Have you checked Napa Autoparts. They usually carry OEM replacement motors for those. I had the same problem in my 86. Nobody had any in stock so I got two from a friend at a Junkyard that has about 90% mustangs in it's inventory. You can try doing the same thing. Before you jump to conclusions you might want to do a little bit more troubleshooting. Get a multimeter and see what the voltage is at the motor. You could have loose connections or a switch that is bad. If there is voltage into the switch but none or a significant drop in voltage after it could be the switch. I checked mine by unplugging the motor and running the red to the switch and the black to the body so you aren't factoring in the motor's resistance.

Also your logic is sound on the brushes portion except for the fact that you don't account for the fact that not all the brushes wear out evenly and electricity will arc between small gaps.

Your best option is to go ahead and get the OEM replacements, in my book. To me it's not worth the time or money to put something together that you are not always used to doing. Murphy's law usually states the more parts that are associated with it the more likely you are that you rebuilt it wrong. Unless you rebuild electric motors for a living or are extremely confident in your rebuilding skills I'd stick with the OEMs or a junkyard find.
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Unread 04-21-2010   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0Jakes View Post
Have you checked Napa Autoparts. They usually carry OEM replacement motors for those. I had the same problem in my 86. Nobody had any in stock so I got two from a friend at a Junkyard that has about 90% mustangs in it's inventory. You can try doing the same thing. Before you jump to conclusions you might want to do a little bit more troubleshooting. Get a multimeter and see what the voltage is at the motor. You could have loose connections or a switch that is bad. If there is voltage into the switch but none or a significant drop in voltage after it could be the switch. I checked mine by unplugging the motor and running the red to the switch and the black to the body so you aren't factoring in the motor's resistance.

Also your logic is sound on the brushes portion except for the fact that you don't account for the fact that not all the brushes wear out evenly and electricity will arc between small gaps.

Your best option is to go ahead and get the OEM replacements, in my book. To me it's not worth the time or money to put something together that you are not always used to doing. Murphy's law usually states the more parts that are associated with it the more likely you are that you rebuilt it wrong. Unless you rebuild electric motors for a living or are extremely confident in your rebuilding skills I'd stick with the OEMs or a junkyard find.
I have a multimeter, so that won't be an issue, but I'm not sure of what the voltage should be at the motor. Would I be correct if I said "as close to 12 volts as possible"? And I'm not sure if I'm getting how you test the wires without the motor's resistance... Could you detail that a little bit more?

I'm an R/C hobbie fan, and I have rebuilt a couple electric motors. I'm not a pro or anything, but I feel pretty confident that given the right parts, and assuming that the case isn't sealed up like a federal prison, I can rebuild the motor without sweating too much. There really are not many parts in a motor, unless it has a mess of a torque converter built into it... The problem is, where do I get the parts? I have 2 OEM motors from the last time I bought junkyard replacements, so I could dig them out and tinker with them without compromising the functionality of my car while I'm doing it... Come to think about it, I think I replaced the both of them in the first place because of the same problem on the passenger window. I'm thinking that even if I failed miserably on the rebuild, I would have not paid too high a price for my efforts, given that I have spares that I wouldn't mind totally destroying. Do you happen to know of a parts source?
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Unread 04-21-2010   #12 (permalink)
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its a simple job to pull the motors out they are high tork motors and the worm gear is steel and the ring gear is plastic the plastic binds up inside sometimes the window will go up and down some times it won't. either way you have to take the motor out before you by the motor check the plastic parts. for get ebay the auto parts stores carry the parts. the tork bushings are designed to fall apart. it only takes a phillips screw driver to remove the one screw that holds the plate covering the gears.gravity is what is letting the window go down when you try to go up the broken gears won't carry the wait of the window.
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Unread 04-22-2010   #13 (permalink)
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Sounds like what mine was doing so i took the motor out it's easy 3 small bolts and it slides right out and tested it on the battery and it was still good so I changed the switch and that fixed it .
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Unread 04-22-2010   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90taz View Post
its a simple job to pull the motors out they are high tork motors and the worm gear is steel and the ring gear is plastic the plastic binds up inside sometimes the window will go up and down some times it won't. either way you have to take the motor out before you by the motor check the plastic parts. for get ebay the auto parts stores carry the parts. the tork bushings are designed to fall apart. it only takes a phillips screw driver to remove the one screw that holds the plate covering the gears.gravity is what is letting the window go down when you try to go up the broken gears won't carry the wait of the window.
Yeah, I think being a budget-minded-can-do guy in a world of buy-it-new people, I'm going to go tackle the bushings tomorrow. Worst that could happen is that I'd waste $10 on some bushings when the problem was elsewhere. I'll report back tomorrow.
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Unread 04-22-2010   #15 (permalink)
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check those new motors...half the time they are so expensive cause they include the regulators with them...just to let you know that ur more than likely getting motor plus regulator
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