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Unread 10-30-2011   #1 (permalink)
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Default Harmonic damper, difference between 50 and 28 oz

what is the difference between a 50oz and a 28oz harmonic damper and can you switch out a 50oz with a 28oz and is there any additional work required to the crankshaft? which is the better for performance street?:?:
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Unread 10-30-2011   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason's GT View Post
can you switch out a 50oz with a 28oz
No!!!!! Doing so will destroy your motor

For hydraulic roller street motors and 28.2oz vs. 50oz, one doesn't have an advantage. For high performance/high RPM motors it does (0oz balance is best). To change the rotating assembly's balance, the motor will have to be disassembled and the rotating assembly will have to be dynamically balanced.

Early 302s were 28.2oz balance (along with all 351Ws), late model 302s (aka, 5.0 HOs) 1982-95 use 50.0oz balance.
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Unread 10-31-2011   #3 (permalink)
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If your going to have work done to a crank go with 0
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Unread 10-31-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Oh, and I forgot that if the rotating assembly is rebalanced to a different balance (50oz, 28.2oz, 0oz), you would need a new flywheel too, not just the harmonic balancer.
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Unread 10-31-2011   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info guys. This is my first full rebuild and all the mustang guys down here act like every thing is a big secret or they just flat out give me bad info. These guys have been faster than me for years, now its my turn to win a few......There will be many more questions in the future. Thanks again guys
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Unread 10-31-2011   #6 (permalink)
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No problem. Feel free to bounce anything off of us anytime!
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Unread 11-03-2011   #7 (permalink)
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Question #2: I have a factory cast crank, will this crank be able to handle 375 hp if material is cut away during this kind of balancing procedure? And what type of damper and flywheel would be required once the crank is balanced to 0oz. I do like the sound of a little more rpm. What would be the max rpm that a cast crank can handle safely?:?:
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The crank will handle 375HP without any problems.
But you're getting way ahead here... What do you plan on building that will require a 0oz balance? Usually a big change like that would require a new crankshaft. And what about RPMs? Cast cranks will usually handle as much as a hydraulic roller motor will; sometimes more.
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Unread 11-04-2011   #9 (permalink)
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well to be honest, i'm not sure if i really need a 0 balance, I'm just asking questions based on conversation. What i am trying to accomplish here is a build based a 400 hp dyno performed on AFR's website which was inclusive of a 5.0 wt 10.1 comp., AFR165 cylinder heads, comp cam 544/555 cam, msd kit, victor jr intake, holley 650 cfm carb, which made 401 hp @ 5700 rpm. That is my goal or to get conservitivley close. If i can achieve 375 hp i would consider the build a sucess. the only difference in the AFR critera and what i have is they used stock bore and i am .030 over. I was kinda banking on the extra cubes making the the 375-400 hp goal a realistic possibility. What are you thoughts?:?:
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Unread 11-04-2011   #10 (permalink)
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The stock cast crank is decent and will usually survive as long as the block does. If you plan on rebuilding the block it is a good idea to have the new pistons balanced with the rods, crank, dampner and flywheel to ensure everyone is on board.

Edit: Those AFR dyno numbers are not horsepower to the wheels.
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Unread 11-04-2011   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason's GT View Post
well to be honest, i'm not sure if i really need a 0 balance, I'm just asking questions based on conversation. What i am trying to accomplish here is a build based a 400 hp dyno performed on AFR's website which was inclusive of a 5.0 wt 10.1 comp., AFR165 cylinder heads, comp cam 544/555 cam, msd kit, victor jr intake, holley 650 cfm carb, which made 401 hp @ 5700 rpm. That is my goal or to get conservitivley close. If i can achieve 375 hp i would consider the build a sucess. the only difference in the AFR critera and what i have is they used stock bore and i am .030 over. I was kinda banking on the extra cubes making the the 375-400 hp goal a realistic possibility. What are you thoughts?:?:
Ah, that makes sense. If you're using a stock rotating assembly, keeping the stock 50oz balance is fine. As Smurf Stang said, if you do use some new pistons (I assume you are because you mentioned a 4.030" bore) definitely have the rotating assembly balanced. When I was talking about a 0oz balance being better, that doesn't really come into effect for builds like you have planned. As long as your rotating assembly gets balanced well with 50oz, you will be fine. It will also cost you a lot less. That said, don't use the stock balancer, that thing is an absolute piece of junk. Get a good aftermarket 50oz balancer.

What pistons were you planning on using anyway?

I personally think AFR 165s are a bit overpriced for what they are, but they are a decent head. With your plans being a carbed setup, if it gets done right I could definitely see between 360-380 crank HP. Good luck
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Unread 11-04-2011   #12 (permalink)
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yeah 10-4 smurf, I understand that. What is the % of hp loss from the flywheel to the rear wheel?:?:
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Unread 11-04-2011   #13 (permalink)
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The pistons are DSS SX Forged which require a 58cc head to make the 10.1 comp. referenced in earlier conversation.
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Unread 11-04-2011   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason's GT View Post
yeah 10-4 smurf, I understand that. What is the % of hp loss from the flywheel to the rear wheel?:?:
Every car and setup differs, but a 13% loss for manual transmission cars and 20% for automatic transmission cars is generally considered a fair estimate.
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Unread 11-04-2011   #15 (permalink)
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Jason so that you understand that usually when they give you these crank hp numbers the motors are in a dyno room with the temperature is nice, cold and controlled. The motor will have no accessories on it and usually have a electric water pump. The exhaust will usually be a nice big diameter long tube header with maybe a small piece of pipe at the end. So needless to say those are very optimum conditions to make some HP NUMBERS which is all they really are.
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