I just got a new job (much better pay) and this newfound income leaves me with more options on my car than I had before.. I wanted to ask.... I know the DSS and CHP blocks are still 302 based... but fully machined and forged... so is that block still going to wanna crack at 500hp+ ?? I actually have alot more money for my project than I had so I was figureing it would be better to upgrade my engine and turbo it later since I will have the money to finish it within a year... should I just find a decent shape (or buy a rebuilt/DSS/CHP) 351w or should I stick with the 302 based blocks (the 302 would save alot of money because of the extra's involved in swapping to 351w... however if its still going to crack at 500 even with the 2000 dollar DSS block... whats the point? i could crack my stock block for a lot less money) .. Any help is appreciated.. I am looking to have a complete pre-turbo set up for around 7-8 grand... (I pretty much have to buy a long block seeing as I dont know enough to risk doing it all myself) - Thanks.... (my power goals are... ~350-400 n/a and 500+ w/boost)
Are you wanting to race or just go around bragging that you have 500hp? Don't buy 331 from DSS or CHPP...Everybody around my area has these motors..They all run 12.20-12.50 N/A...My buddy had his 331 built by a professional engine builder..He runs 11.7's on full 17 inch chrome cobra rims...The Trick Flow intake he bought stops flowing at 6200 I believe.The builder set it up to rev past 7000..His car is very streetable..If you have the cash then have a 408 built...Right there you already have 100hp more than a 302 based block...Plus a 351 block is strong and can handle a ton more hp...
I am pretty much in the same boat as you. I am leaning pretty hard to a Dart 302 block. Reason being, the 351 can handle about 700hp (from what I have researched so far) and the Dart can handle over 1500. Now I know the dart is much more expensive but for the amount it would cost to buy the intake and headers and everything to swap to a 351, its not much cheaper than the Dart (the 351 may even be more expensive depending on what type of headers and everything you get).
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1993 GT Hatch: 306 with Twisted Wedge heads,TFS stage one cam,TFS upper/lower intake, 190lph fuel pump, 30lb injectors, 70mm TB/EGR plate, Granatelli MAF= now using Pro-M, Lakewood upper/lower control arms, powertrax diff, subframe connectors, Eibach springs, aluminum ds, t56 trans, Eibach swaybars, Flowtech LT's, Magnaflow CB, 17x10.5 deep dish cobras in rear, 17x9 cobras in front.
Marine Detachment, Keesler AFB, Biloxi MS
OOORAAHH!!!
hmm so I could get an engine built around a dart 302 block... I hadn't looked into the dart blocks because they are so expensive, but seeing as it does cost extra to swap to a 351... your idea is very interesting... as for the "bragging rights" - my reason for doing this is both simple and complicated... i love turbo's, i love racing, and there is supposed to be a drag track opening locally soon... I also need the car to be reliable (not cracking the block with boost)... and I figure once I am out of college I will turn it into a full time drag car... therefore the block with more potential is perhaps a better choice...
hmm so I could get an engine built around a dart 302 block... I hadn't looked into the dart blocks because they are so expensive, but seeing as it does cost extra to swap to a 351... your idea is very interesting... as for the "bragging rights" - my reason for doing this is both simple and complicated... i love turbo's, i love racing, and there is supposed to be a drag track opening locally soon... I also need the car to be reliable (not cracking the block with boost)... and I figure once I am out of college I will turn it into a full time drag car... therefore the block with more potential is perhaps a better choice...
I didn't mean to sound like a ***** about the "bragging rights" thing..For that I do apoligize.. A few cars around here especially the ricers brag that they have 500hp...The thing is who cares...Bring it to the track and run your 14.0's....But if you have the cash build you a nice dart block 331 with all forged internals...Add the turbo if you want...Just make sure you keep that compression down around 8.5:1...I think you can go a little higher....I prefer being N/a...What you pull on the dyno is what you will have at the track...Guy just north of me says he has I think 550hp(flywheel)..Well his ass has a big procharger a ton of suspension and the best of everything in his engine bay..His ass only runs 12.0's -12.20....He use to say he will hit a 10 just because of the hp #'s...Different story when he got to the track...The procharger has to stay very high in the rpms to keep the boost up...N/A you have what you have....Power straight through your rpms
I agree with bronx bomber. Just dont be in too much of a rush to get everything. Do all your research and read up on all the kinds and sizes of turbos. And as bronxbomber said, keep the compression low. But unlike a centrifugal supercharger which only produces max boost pretty much at redline, a turbo can see max boost at around 2500rpm and it will hold it til redline(depending on model). Just do a LOT of research. Dont just buy a bunch of parts because they are supposedly "the best" they have to be the best for YOUR setup. The setup I am leaning toward is using a Dart 302 and building an entirely forged 331 stroker, custom ground turbo cam and twin turbos. I am going to build the motor myself both to save some money and just so i know how it was put together and what was used to build it.
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1993 GT Hatch: 306 with Twisted Wedge heads,TFS stage one cam,TFS upper/lower intake, 190lph fuel pump, 30lb injectors, 70mm TB/EGR plate, Granatelli MAF= now using Pro-M, Lakewood upper/lower control arms, powertrax diff, subframe connectors, Eibach springs, aluminum ds, t56 trans, Eibach swaybars, Flowtech LT's, Magnaflow CB, 17x10.5 deep dish cobras in rear, 17x9 cobras in front.
Marine Detachment, Keesler AFB, Biloxi MS
OOORAAHH!!!
I agree with bronx bomber. Just dont be in too much of a rush to get everything. Do all your research and read up on all the kinds and sizes of turbos. And as bronxbomber said, keep the compression low. But unlike a centrifugal supercharger which only produces max boost pretty much at redline, a turbo can see max boost at around 2500rpm and it will hold it til redline(depending on model). Just do a LOT of research. Dont just buy a bunch of parts because they are supposedly "the best" they have to be the best for YOUR setup. The setup I am leaning toward is using a Dart 302 and building an entirely forged 331 stroker, custom ground turbo cam and twin turbos. I am going to build the motor myself both to save some money and just so i know how it was put together and what was used to build it.
I use to think that just because these companies advertise in the mags they were the best...A couple years ago me and my buddy started looking around at some of the mail order motors that are in some of the cars around here...We noticed that none of them could get out of the 12 N/A...They had big victor jr heads, spyder intakes.. The guy who built my buddies car builds motors for dirt track cars...He has been doing motors for 40 years himself...My buddy has absolutely nothing monsterous in his car either..It's a 331, twisted wedge untouched heads, nodular crank, eagle rods, and probe pistons..Nothing special..No different than any of the magazine oredered motors. They take their time and pay attention to what they are doing..They balance the motors out to the gram....He will be doing mine...I'm in no hurry to get mine done...It's getting colder here in Ohio..It will be complet come April though...So take your time, do some research, sit down and right out exactly what you want and are looking for...Try and find some engine builders in your area and go talk to them...Good luck!!!
OK, I'm just beginning a buildup on a 331 stroker. What's a good stroker kit to get to pull this off? I want to keep a moderate compression ratio so I can boost it later down the road. I'm putting in pretty much a new suspension front and rear designed for road coursing. I'd like to have 400ish at the ground and I need a good broad set of power curves..
I know I'm going to need forged pistons and rods and possibly a forged crank too. Any kit I get I'm going to have balanced and maybe shot peened too if someone can explain exactly what it is and if it's worth the cost.
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Sometimes I think that government fits that old-fashioned definition of a baby: An alimentary canal with an appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
- Ronald Reagan
yea i dont know of any engine builders in my area... i figured i could look around... or maybe even try it myself... i dont mine teaching myself.. just dont think there is much room for error when it comes to such projects... does the ford 302 "R" block have a large HP tolerance than the stock 302? because its cheaper than the dart and some 1 told me could handle 1000+hp? is this true? thanks
Sometimes I think that government fits that old-fashioned definition of a baby: An alimentary canal with an appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
- Ronald Reagan
Sometimes I think that government fits that old-fashioned definition of a baby: An alimentary canal with an appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
- Ronald Reagan
yea i dont know of any engine builders in my area... i figured i could look around... or maybe even try it myself... i dont mine teaching myself.. just dont think there is much room for error when it comes to such projects... does the ford 302 "R" block have a large HP tolerance than the stock 302? because its cheaper than the dart and some 1 told me could handle 1000+hp? is this true? thanks
Rblocks are stronger than a mules ass...I know a guy running very low 10's on motor and 9's with n2o...They are 4 bolt main
DSS 306/331 vs. 351w swap 
now using Pro-M, Lakewood upper/lower control arms, powertrax diff, subframe connectors, Eibach springs, aluminum ds, t56 trans, Eibach swaybars, Flowtech LT's, Magnaflow CB, 17x10.5 deep dish cobras in rear, 17x9 cobras in front.
