[andrewsg]

Good Afternoon Fellow Carnuts,

I'm having an issue on a car right now that is just driving me nuts. First off I have an engine builder working for me that needs a beating -- the first issue is as follows.

The car is a 1986 Mustang GT, it has a 1974 Motor in it a 302 not a "5.0".
He insists to use the late model firing order 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, meanwhile I'm a firm believer that the thing needs the old school firing order of what I BELIEVE is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. He won't even try it and when I went to his 'dyno room' to swap it out he screamed, yelled and bitched me out and now he basically has my motor hostage.

Am I correct? One last thing -- its a Mallory Unilite Comp 9000 distributor. With no vacuum advance and no real 'idle advance' it has 40 degrees of timing at idle from what he is telling me.

Whatever -- the second problem is an AED modified 650 Holley called their 'Eliminator'. Its a 650 with a 850 baseplate or something to that effect. Squirters are 31 primary, 35 secondary, 69 Primary jets, 80 secondary. Power valve is a 2.5 (the vacuum is around 5-6 inches, no I dont have a vacuum leak). PVRC is .055 primary. High sped bleed is .031 in both pri/sec.
Idle bleed is .070 in both pri/sec. Idle restriction is .031 pri, .033 sec.
Pink accelerator pump cams and 30cc accelerator pumps.

Car is a same as above, 2900 lbs, no gear in the rear (3.08s), 5 speed. 302 9.5 to 1 compression, Victor Jr Intake manifold, forged internals, R302 block. Ultradyne cam (243int/251ex @.050) Gross Valve Lift of 571int/594exh. 1.7 Erson Roller Rockers, World Products Windsor SR Heads. Granted the car has a powerband for the 'higher' rpms.
Really a drag motor. Car really has no low end, due to the big plenum intake and the cam. Car is equipped with Nitrous (125 Horsepower wet kit).

Any idea on where I should start with this thing? It drives OK but it really has no nut. I've spoken with AED and they've helped me out with everything Ive asked but right now they are kinda scratching their heads telling me basically trial and error because the carb is MADE for smallblock fords. Ive USED an AED eliminator carb before and it is one AWESOME carb. I'm not riding AED's nuts at all, its just amazing how it worked on one car and the other it hasnt.

Sorry for the long ass post. Let me know what yall think.

[andrewsg]

Bizzleump! Anyone, anything? Let me know!

[andrewsg]

Well i believe its an early 302 firing order because the cam card denotes 289/302 not 351... anyone have anything to prove me wrong or right?

[85MUSTANGGT]

You could call Ultradyne and ask directly. The cam specs don't tell what the firing order is? The 5.0 HO are the ones with the 351 firing order but all that dictates that is the cam. So its however the cam is made. You should be able to run the HO firing order cams in the older blocks.

[bamm624]

unless its a late model h.o. 5.0 you need to use the 302 firing order. the only motors that use 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 are H.O. 302's or 351 windsors. i use the windsor firing order and at first tried the 5.0 order and it was totally wrong. and if your running 40 degrees advanced that is way too early to ignite. you need to be around 10-12 degrees advanded w/ no vacuum hooked up. hope this helps and you need a new mechanic. (just my 2 cents)

[MustangNate]

Old school 302 w/ 302 cam = 302 firing order

5.0HO or 302 w/351w cam = 351w firing order!

[andrewsg]

I called ultradyne this evening: they CANNOT tell me what the firing order is. Its one of the older cams that they made that they do not have 'on file' I gave them the serial number and the guy was like whoa.. an oldie but goodie. He could tell me about his 'ol 289 with it in it. But he couldnt tell me the firing order. he basically told me hold the cam in your hand and turn it and see which valves open in what order.

Greaaaat.. Sorry no that doesnt help. Freaking asshats. I cant justify tearing this engine apart. There HAS to be some other way of figuring this out.

Its a locked out dizzy. No vacuum advance. No idle advance. 40 Degrees at idle. Mallory Unilite Comp 9000 Series. The one with the optical eye.

As per the mechanic - no... a new MACHINIST. As per mechanic Ive done everything on my own until about this past year and a half. I have a really wicked case of advanced lyme disease that has not only made me lose my hearing but is also literally eating away at my muscles. Let alone the fact that from all the work ive done with my hands since I was little (like 9/10) i have really wicked arthritis in my hands, upper shoulders and knees. (and I'm only 23). Its rediculous. I MISS doing all my own work. And what pisses me off is that I cant watch this guy all the time. If it were up to me I'd have a job that wasnt 16 hours a day and id have a garage again.

Blah.. so much for my wants.

I appreciate everyone's 2 cents. Let me know if you can help me out any further with what I have just added.

[meangreen92]

Couldn't you pull the valve covers. and spin the motor over by hand, and observe the "valve order"?
Firing order depends entirely on the cam.
Only other thing to do, would be to switch the plugwires to the other firing order, and see how it runs.

[andrewsg]

Anyone else have any info? Oh yeah -- bump!

[tagteam]

my thoughts on this if they cant find the file on your cam # and he had the same cam in his 289. it will use the old 302 firing order. but with that dizzy you might have a ruff time to get it in time!!!!! 40 degrees is a hole lot to start off with for sure!!! good luck oh sun!!!