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1994-1995 5.0 Mustang SN95 Tech Forum

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Unread 04-21-2011   #1 (permalink)
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Default how to tell when charcoal canister is bad

I have a 94 gt and im getting a really bad gas odor from the vent tube from the charcoal canister.. the stuff inside falls out if you tip it over is that normal? Idk. If its that or the purge valve.
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Unread 04-23-2011   #2 (permalink)
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Most likely needs replaced or removed. You should be able to tell if the valve is working. Do you have a EGR code?
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Unread 04-23-2011   #3 (permalink)
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The canister may be gasoline soaked from over filling the gas tank. Gasoline vapors are drawn from the tank through the canister and into the intake by vacuum. The process is controlled through the purge solenoid. There is no connection between this function and the EGR. Here's a schematic of the vacuum system.

http://members.shaw.ca/r-manders/vacuum..bmp

There isn't a vent tube unless you are referencing the line to the purge valve or the line from the gas tank. It's a closed system.
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Unread 04-23-2011   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks but I took it out and just ran the vent to the CAI and it took care of it....I found a old post about it....but again thanks...
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Unread 04-24-2011   #5 (permalink)
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The EGR shuts off at Wide Open Throttle (WOT), so it has minimal effect on performance. The addition of exhaust gas drops combustion temperature, increases gas [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]mileage[/color][/color] and reduces the tendency of the engine to ping. It can also reduce HC emissions by reducing fuel consumption. The primary result of EGR usage is a reduction in NOx emissions.

The EGR system has a vacuum source (line from the intake manifold) that goes to the EVR, computer operated electronic vacuum regulator. The EVR is located on the back of the passenger side shock strut tower. The computer uses RPM, Load. and some other factors to tell the EVR to pass vacuum to open the EGR valve. The EGR valve and the passages in the heads and intake manifold route exhaust gas to the EGR spacer (throttle body spacer). The EGR sensor tells the computer how far the EGR valve is open. Then computer adjusts the signal sent to the EVR to hold, increase or decrease the vacuum. The computer adds spark advance to compensate for the recirculated gases and the slower rate they burn at.


http://forums.stangnet.com/attachmen...1&d=1184985651

Troubleshooting:
There should be no vacuum at the EGR valve when at idle. If there is, the EVR (electronic vacuum regulator) mounted on the backside of the passenger side wheelwell is suspect. Check the vacuum line plumbing to make sure the previous owner didn’t cross the vacuum lines.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds. (the diagram says 88 GT, but the EGR part is the same for 86-93 [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]Mustangs[/color][/color])
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/te...g5.0Vacuum.gif

The EGR sensor is basically a variable resistor, like the volume control on a radio. One end is 5 volt VREF power from the computer (red/orange wire). One end is computer signal ground (black/white), and the middle wire (brown/lt green) is the signal output from the EGR sensor. It is designed to always have some small voltage output from it anytime the ignition switch is the Run position. That way the computer knows the sensor & the wiring is OK. No voltage on computer pin 27 (brown/lt green wire) and the computer thinks the sensor is bad or the wire is broken and sets code 31. The voltage output can range from approximately .6-.85 volt.

The EVR regulates vacuum to the EGR valve to maintain the correct amount of vacuum. The solenoid coil should measure 20-70 Ohms resistance. The regulator has a vacuum feed on the bottom which draws from the intake manifold. The other vacuum line is regulated vacuum going to the EGR valve. One side of the EVR electrical circuit is +12 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side of the electrical circuit is the ground path and is controlled by the computer. The computer switches the ground on and off to control the regulator solenoid.



EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.

connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve or see the EGR test jig drawing below. Connnect the test jig or to directly to manifold vacuum.

Do not connect the EGR test jig to the EVR (Electronic Vacuum Regulator).


apply 5in vacuum to the valve. Using the test jig, use your finger to vary the vacuum

if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.

if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.

if engine stumbled, connect EGR test jig to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve.
Use your finger to cap the open port on the vacuum tee.
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?
if not the EVR has failed

EGR test jig
http://forums.stangnet.com/attachmen...1&d=1241104268

To test the computer and wiring to the computer, you can use a test light across the EVR wiring connectors and dump the codes. When you dump the codes, the computer does a self test that toggles every relay/actuator/solenoid on and off. When this happens, the test light will flicker. If the test light remains on the computer or the wiring is suspect.

To check the EVR to computer wiring, disconnect the EVR connector and connect one end of the Ohmmeter to the dark green wire EVR wiring. Remove the passenger side kick panel and use a 10 MM socket to remove the computer connector from the computer. Set the Ohmmeter to high range and connect the other ohmmeter lead to ground. You should see an infinite open circuit indication or a reading greater than 1 Meg Ohm. If you see less than 200 Ohms, the dark green wire has shorted to ground somewhere.
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Unread 04-24-2011   #6 (permalink)
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So, again where's the connection between a properly functioning EGR system and the charcoal canister purge valve. Go and look at the vacuum diagram and then tell us how diagnosing the EGR functionality solves a gas smell from the canister.
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Unread 04-24-2011   #7 (permalink)
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First off thank you guys for all the help, but from all I know there is no link no lines connected them and I was having a studder when I got on the gas, and believe it or not just from taking out the charcoal can it got alot more responsive. And my purge valve was still good. So IMO there was no reason to keep it on. The gas smell is not that bad when it sits and when its running the vapor is sucked in the CAI, but as far as the egr its still on, im still going to keep in on least till it goes bad.
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Unread 04-24-2011   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toyman View Post
There isn't a vent tube unless you are referencing the line to the purge valve or the line from the gas tank. It's a closed system.
There was a line that ran over the inner fender and came out right under the passenger frame rail right by the radiator and was open,as far as I know it wasn't hooked to anything beforehand, if you know otherwise please tell me.....like I said I had already taken it out but would like to know if. Was wrong to do so.
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Unread 04-25-2011   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94mustanggtmsd View Post
There was a line that ran over the inner fender and came out right under the passenger frame rail right by the radiator and was open,as far as I know it wasn't hooked to anything beforehand, if you know otherwise please tell me.....like I said I had already taken it out but would like to know if. Was wrong to do so.
That's where the charcoal canister is supposed to be. Where was yours?

Connecting the vapor line from the tank to the air intake after the MAF may not be a good idea as it will allow unmetered air into the system. Unmetered air can cause idle issues just like a vacuum leak.
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Unread 04-25-2011   #10 (permalink)
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My can was inside the passenger side fender back by the door....that's where the charcoal can it supossed to mount.... I can send pics if you would like cuz I have read on here alot of people saying the same thing but that's where mind bolts up.....there is a metal block where you where talking about with metal lines to it I will look and see what that is and let you know.....
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Unread 04-25-2011   #11 (permalink)
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My Bad. I wasn't looking at the illustration correctly.
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Unread 11-29-2011   #12 (permalink)
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i know this is an old post but did you figure out where that hose that ends by radiator goes?.. I know it comes from the charcoal canister but i am wondering where it goes also?.. I cant find where it would be connected anywhere..
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Unread 11-30-2011   #13 (permalink)
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The hose by the radiator and below the air filter box is a vent for the charcoal canister it doesn't connect to anything. If you are getting fumes, especially on hot days, they are coming from this vent hose. It usually means the canistor purge valve is not working or the vacuum hose under the upper intake has dry rotted and come disconnected or one of the hoses inside the right front fender to the canistor is bad. If you have raw fuel running down the frame rail from this vent hose the charcoal canistor is bad also. While you have the inner fender out check all the vacuum lines to the TAD, TAB, and EGR solenoids.
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Unread 11-30-2011   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info.
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