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Old 07-05-2007   #1 (permalink)
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Default Mach 460 amp to power aftermarket subwoofer?

I just finished installing a new Pioneer headunit and new Alpine door speakers in my 2003 convertible. Since the headunit is now powering all the speakers (instead of the 2 amplifiers powering the 4 woofers), can I use one of the amps to power a single 10" subwoofer to add a little kick? What are the specs on the mach 460 amplifiers?

Also, being a convertible, space is already tight. Anybody have experience with using slim powered underseat subwoofers (the ones that look like small briefcases)? Other ideas on how to use space wisely to stash a small sub would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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Old 07-06-2007   #2 (permalink)
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I would say nix the idea of a 460 amp trying to push a 10" sub. Don't get me wrong, it could work, but it won't perform. Reason being lack of power for one. What I mean is you have a convertable. Lots of outside noise to compete with... esp. with the top down. You just won't hear it let alone feel it. Reason two is design. The 460 amps were designed to drive the small crap woofers at a specific frequency that just won't do a 10" sub justice at all. The frequecy response is just too narrow.
It sounds to me you would like to keep the bass inside the cabin area and stay away from putting a sub or subs in the trunk. Am I right? I hope so. Subs in the trunk of a vert does work.... with lots and lots of power. Then you need subs to handle lots and lots of power. There goes your trunk.

Heres what I would suggest. Since your getting good sound from your Pioneer headunit driving the Alpines in the doors, I say step it up by keeping it simple. Lose the rear speaker enclosures in the side panels.
Now, now... hear me out... I would go with a small sealed enclosure on each side replacing the factory plastic pieces. This can be done with wood and a little shaping to make it fit or go full on with fiberglass. Any competant installer could make this work. I would then choose a GOOD shallow 8" woofer to go in said enclosures. I would go with a JL Audio 8W-0 or a Kicker Comp. Anything such as a JL 8W3 will be too deep to mount, so we want to keep it shallow. Now, find a good 4 channel amplifier of your choosing that puts out a CLEAN 100 Watts of power per channel, and has an adjustable crossover. Hopefully your Pioneer has a sub output or at least front AND rear RCA outputs. Use the front channels to drive the Alpines with the crossover set for HIGHPASS at around 60-80 hertz. Then use the rear OR sub output from the Pioneer to the amp to drive the 8 inchers. Crossover set to lowpass at the same frequency. You will be very suprised at the sound a good pair of 8s will provide as long as the enclosure is good and the crossovers are set right. If anyone tells you that 8s won't fit as I described, then turn and walk away. I've done this install in many verts, Mustang or not, in 2 different states without complaint. The key is keeping it simple. Headunit-- amplifier---2 door speakers---2 small subs. Simple. You could even add some nice tweeters in the factory location driven off the Pioneer for a little added "shimmer" to the sound. But I think the biggest difference will be the added power to the Alpines in your doors. With a well set crossover and CLEAN power, they will SING!

good luck
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Old 07-06-2007   #3 (permalink)
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Oops, almost a double post. I hope Lee doesn't give me a ticket.
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Old 07-06-2007   #4 (permalink)
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There are some other ways to go if your interested, such as putting the Alpines in some custom kick panels and 8s in the doors but we're talkin some serious work to be done to make it RIGHT. Let me know what you decide to do. Even if my suggestions aren't to your liking then I would still be curious on what direction you decide to go. Maybe I could offer some help.
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Old 07-06-2007   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the help!
I'm intrigued. Are you saying I should remove and scrap the side panels in the back and fabricate custom panels/speaker enclosures? Or are you saying that I should just build a couple custom enclosures to go behind the side panels?
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Old 07-06-2007   #6 (permalink)
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Ooooh. Good question. I guess I should have covered that! What I've done is keep the panel and build the enclosure to mount behind it, BUT line the backside of the panel with a sound deadening material (Dynamat), to keep it from rattling. If the all the mounting points for the panel are still good after removing it, you won't have a problem with rattle but just for good measure...

But if you have the knowhow, i would never steer anyone away from a custom panel!!

Another thing I've done in the past is mount a nice MESH grill on the sub and then CAREFULLY cut out the panel so the grill is either flush, or SLIGHTLY protrudes through the panel. On a couple of occasions, I've covered the grill with a very light material that matches the interior. You want to stay away from the grills that look like waffles and get a nice 2 piece kit with a mounting ring and grill that snaps over the ring such as this http://i3.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/7f/af/08fe_1_sbl.JPG

keep the questions coming. I probably forgot to tell you alot!
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Old 07-06-2007   #7 (permalink)
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I pulled up the rear seat this morning to try to get a feel for the space I'd be working with (between the existing factory sub and the panel) and noticed that there is a bunch of space under the seat that is filled by foam attached to the seat. Is that foam needed to support the booties that use it, or could that space be utilized for subwoofers and still have use of the seat (or will the seat muffle the bass to much if mounted there)?

Ok, and back to the 8"ers in place of the subs behind the panel. Am I understanding this correctly? To mount the subs I would need to shape and mount a ring over the current sub's hole to accept and hold the 8" in place between the metal frame and the plastic panel, right?
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Old 07-06-2007   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah, the seats would just muffle it.

When it comes to behind the panel, I've always designed and built my own enclosure to replace the factory one behind the panel using a combination of wood and fiberglass. If I remember correctly, in a Mustang vert,there wasn't much room to work with because of the seatbelt housing, which is why they went with a smaller speaker back there. (5.25 opposed to a 5x7) You probably could cut out the hole some in the factory piece and mount a ring to fit an 8" sub but then proper airspace for the sub to play the desired frequencies will become an issue. 8" subs don't need alot of air space to work well but I think the factory enclosure might be too small, even for an 8. Like I said, Ive alway built my own so I never really measured out how much airspace is in the factory piece. Just in case you decide to try it, make sure the mounting ring or plate is attached WELL and seal it up as best you can. Maybe run a bead of silicone around it. Use 3/4 inch wood for the ring or plate and you might be able to get away without cutting the factory hole out. I say that only because if it doesn't work or fit or sounds crappy, you would still be able to use it for the factory speaker. Once its cut.... its cut. Check around your local area and see if you can find a car audio shop with a good reputation, go down and ask them if they've ever done anything like I've described. Maybe even go down with the panel removed and show them what your looking for.
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Old 07-06-2007   #9 (permalink)
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I dont give tickets....if I do they are golden and say "Wonka" on them....and then you can visit his factory.
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Old 07-12-2007   #10 (permalink)
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Hey Steve, I did some searching and found this little puppy. It might suit your purpose and maybe open up some different ideas on installation. I've used their Premier subs before and they sound awesome! http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...tailsComponent
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Old 07-12-2007   #11 (permalink)
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I really, really appreciate your help! The msrp on those Premier's is $160 (about twice that of the JL Audio's you also recommended). What's the story there? I am planning on going by a local audio shop that sells JL Audio and Kicker brands tomorrow. And I'm planning on having a go at making some fiberglass enclosures for behind the pannels this weekend.
Oh, you recommended an amp that puts out 100 watts of clean power per channel. I know very little about amps. How do I know if the output is clean at 100 watts/channel?
Again, thanks for all your help!
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Old 07-13-2007   #12 (permalink)
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I went with 2 JL Audio 8W0's and a JL Audio A4300 amp. Next step: try my hand at making fiberglass enclosures. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 07-13-2007   #13 (permalink)
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EXCELLENT amp choice! When it comes to fiberglass, you can read all the articles you can and still not get it right. It all comes with experience. Here are some simple guide lines to follow though. Good luck! http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...TID=74519&PN=1
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