[aharemza]

I have purchased a 1964 1/2 Mustang Coupe and the title & vin number on the door don't match the vehicle & the Vin Number under the hood has been cut out & welded over. Can the car be tracked back by using the engine serial number.The 260 V8 engine & Auto transmission are original for the car which has all the indications it is a 1964 1/2 which the current title identifies the car as a 1965, Fastback,200 6cyl engine. I would like to get this car back to the correct year built if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated>

[Jay H 237]

There is no VIN on the motors back then.

Since the title is completely wrong, doesn't even go to this car, it's useless.

So the door tag VIN doesn't match the car either? It sounds like the door was replaced too.

Now with the cars true legal VIN being removed from under the hood there's no real VIN left on this car. Did you check both (driver and passenger side) inner fenders and even look under the fender lip since the VIN is sometimes double stamped and the second one further back?

If there's absolutely no VINs left on both inner fenders then someone has removed this cars ID either on purpose (stolen?) or ignorance (panel repair/replacement and didn't keep track). You said "welded over". Is there an actual piece of metal welded on top of where the VIN should be? If that's the case I'd carefully grind it off to see if there's a legible VIN still under it.

Can you contact the previous owner and find out if they know anything?

You may wind up having to get a state issued VIN.

[dodgestang]

Don't spend another dime on the car till you have the title and vin issue squared away. If you spent any money on it so far take those parts off and be fully prepared for worse case scenario if you do you find the real vin which can be on the driver or passenger fender (you need to take both off to check for both hidden vins). If you find a vin and then attempt to title to it and it is a bad vin/car the car will be taken away. There are no other markings on the car that can be used for registration (door plate is not valid for title purposes).

Best case scenario IMO is that someone had 2 mustangs and made 1 and didn't know/care to know enough about them and just sold/titling it as which ever one's paper work was the easiest for him to get out of his desk.

[AllStangs]

I agree with dodgestang. It sounds like the VIN was tampered with on purpose and that's not a good sign for you. I'd clear this up ASAP and prepare for the worst.

Also, here's a link to a previous post with almost your exact issue. http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...locations.html

It includes a pic with the alternate VIN locations. Take a look and hopefully you've still got the correct VIN stamped in one of those locations:

Good luck! Hope it's just a simple misunderstanding.

[aharemza]

Thanks for the help. I will remove the front fender to see if those in Numbers are still there which I believe they are since the fenders do appear to be original and have not been removed.

I will post what I find.

Thanks again for the help

[aharemza]

I Have found the Vin # 5F07D163325 on both fender mounts and it is the same. Now I have one discrepancy and that the vin # indicates that the car was built with a 286 4V by the engine code, but the car has a 260 2v and the fender emblems also are for a 260 V8. There appears to be no damage or evidence that the front of the car has ever been apart and the engine and transmission are original. I am working on getting a title for the car with the Vin # under fender mounts. Based on the vin # I located can anyone tell me if this is a vin # for a 1964 1/2?

[dodgestang]

Originally Posted by aharemza

I Have found the Vin # 5F07D163325 on both fender mounts and it is the same. Now I have one discrepancy and that the vin # indicates that the car was built with a 286 4V by the engine code, but the car has a 260 2v and the fender emblems also are for a 260 V8. There appears to be no damage or evidence that the front of the car has ever been apart and the engine and transmission are original. I am working on getting a title for the car with the Vin # under fender mounts. Based on the vin # I located can anyone tell me if this is a vin # for a 1964 1/2?

The logic is really simply on this one.

Either the motor is original to the car and someone put a front clip on the car or
the front clip is correct and someone installed the different motor or
neither the motor or the clip is original to the car.

It doesn't really matter either way, the car is OLD, they go through a lot in their lives and this one very obviously was restored by someone at some point. Given the fact that it has a D code would indicate the vin # on the aprons are from an early 65 model year that some people refer to as 64 1/2. But given the fact that everything appears to be a mish mash it certainly isn't definitive. Does the car have a generator in it? Does it have the generator wiring?

'64 1/2 Mustangs, How to Tell the Difference - ClassicMustang.com

[dodgestang]

Nothing to see here...move along...just a DP

[Veronica]

Hello. The car would have had a scheduled production date of about 10F, or, June 10th of 64, which would be a 64 1/2. However, it appears that you are unaware of the fact that the 64 1/2s are all titled as 65 model cars. I would be interested in hearing how you determined that the motor in the car is a 260, and not a 289. Also, if there is something welded over the top of one of the vin stampings under the hood, I think that I would knock that off and see if the D code vin is there underneath. And, one more question, is the D code vin on the door tag?

[aharemza]

The Vin # on The Door is 5F09T717311 which is for a 65, fast back, And 6 cyl eng. The Vin number under hood was cut out & welded over. The reason I say the car has a 260 V8 is that both fender emblem are 260 & it has a 2 Barrel carb with generator. Is the production date stamped in other places I can look for.

Thanks for the Help

[chris_il]

yor vin# codes indicate as follows: 5F07D163325

the 5 means 1965...wich all 64 1/2 and 1965 mustangs are titled as

the F is the engine code, wich F indicates 289

the D is the production plant code...wich is Dearborn michigan

if you want to truly id your car as a 64 1/2, here are a couple things to look for that are unique only to a true 64 1/2:

vents in front of battery box for cooling

measure the mustang emblems..as they were smaller in 64

look at the heater control switch, is it chrome and is the fan speed in the center at the top of the switch

look at the spar tire hold down in the trunk, is it a slot?

does it have the smaller sized T-handle shifter?

does it have the generator instead of alt? this was exclusive to 64 1/2 only

is the horn larg and mounted on the driverside front tip of the frame rail?

does the passenger seat adjust? it shouldnt

look at both rear brake light lenses and front signal lenses, they will be marked with a 64

are the headlights beveled to match the fenders?

does the gas cap have a security cable? 64 1/2 didnt

I will have to refer to my list, but there are tons more. if you like throw me an email..... lockman74@hotmail.com

[Jay H 237]

Originally Posted by chris_il

yor vin# codes indicate as follows: 5F07D163325


the F is the engine code, wich F indicates 289

the D is the production plant code...wich is Dearborn michigan

You have that backwards. The second digit, the F, is the production plant code for Dearborn. The fifth digit, the D, is the engine code for the 289 4v offered on the early 65 cars.

[chris_il]

ahhh jay u r right, I stand correctedf. I was tired lol ty

[Veronica]

Hi again. I'm pretty sure that aharemza has things sorted out by now. But, just for clarity's sake, it wasn't the running pony emblem that was smaller, it was the "Mustang" script on the fender. The center/off heater switch, the carriage bolt spare hold-down and smaller T-handle were phased out. There were some cars built as late as october of 64 that had some of these things. There were two horns and they were mounted on top of the strut rod support bracket. If you open the hood and look down, you would see one on each side of the fan. The non-adjustable passenger side seat was phased out around may 1st, so, they built a lot more 64 1/2s that had the adjustable passenger seat than had the non-adjustable. The fenders didn't have a bevel in them. The headlight door bevel was to keep the lip of what is generally considered to be "The 64 1/2 Hood" from hitting the headlight door assembly, and, the vast majority of these cars no longer have the gas cap without the don't-lose-me cable. The reason for adding that cable to the gas cap was sound. The last time that I actually saw a car with my own eyes that still had the original 64 1/2 gas cap was nearly twenty years ago. Other than my car, that is. I saw it a couple of hours ago. But, my car was sitting in a barn for like 25 years when I got it. Nobody had the chance to lose the gas cap from the early 70s until the late 90s.

[chris_il]

yes you are right, things were phased out....when they started building 65's. even then some 64 1/2 parts were carried over. a true 64 1/2 horn is down on the frame rail on the drivers side