[jkhint]

I have a 1970 Grande 351w 4v, the vin is 0f04m200202
color code is: Y DSO is: 61 Body is: 65E Trans is: X Axle is: 6
Trim is: AF

i have found out that it is special order to Dallas it has a FMX automatic transmission and the engine code is M for 351 4v
but i have looked online at many websites and all it tells me is that the engine that is suppose to be in there is a Cleveland not a Windsor. could it be possible that it originally came with the Windsor? where can i find information on Matching numbers to verify if the engine is the original? Any help would be greatly appriciated. Thank you

[Jay H 237]

A full or partial VIN should be stamped on top of the block in the back in the area between the intake and bell housing. You may have to clean that area real well to see it.


In 1970 with the 351 engines the windsor and clevelands were used interchangably with the H and M code VINs. I've seen deluxe Marti reports mention which engine was installed originally. The windsor was being phased out and the cleveland was being phased in and with the randomness it appears the factory used whatever 351 engine they had on hand at the time a 351 powered car was built.

[jkhint]

thank you for the info

[70Mach03]

If it's a 1970 M-code it was a 351-4V Cleveland from the factory. In 1970 there were no 351-4V Windsors from the factory. In 1969 all 351's whither 2V-or 4V (H or M-codes) were Windsors. In 1970 with the H-codes you could get either 351C or 351W motors with two-barrel carbs. If you got a M-code in 1970 with a four barrel it was a Cleveland.

There are different stories for this happening. They range from an excess of 351 Windsor motors left over from 1969 to a strike at the Cleveland foundry causing a shortages of 351 Cleveland's early in the production.

You have to remember with our Mustangs being nearly 40 years old, finding one with an original motor is really rare. I've had three different 1970 Mustangs over the years including one brand new in 1970. I kept that car for 22 years. It saw many modifications over the years from salvage yards from wrecked 1969 and 70 Mustangs that I found. I added things like wood-grain dash panels from a 1969 Mach 1 and a factory console from a 1970 Cougar XR-7 being two I remember right off the bat. Where ever that car is today, I'm sure that someone is having a field day trying to figure out all the "rare options" I added over the years (LOL).

Your VIN (0F04M200202) sounds like a very late in the model year production. I would guess a June 1970 build date. That late in the model year I'm sure all the Windsors were gone from the Mustangs. My present 1970 Mach 1 has the original motor. However it has seen two rebuilds and is presently at .060 overbored. Next time around I'll probably replace it with a Windsor as they are more affordable and easier to find now days. Enjoy your ride, that's what it's all about.

[jkhint]

thanks for all the info!

[leeburch1]

In 1970 the 351 4V could be either Windsor or Cleveland. Its pretty easy to tell the difference. Just count the bolts on the valve covers...If there are 8 its a Cleveland. (Windsor only has 6). Also the water hose goes into the thermostat housing just to the right of the distributor on top of the engine. The water hose on the Windsor goes into the front of the engine.

[jkhint]

I have figured out that it is a Windsor engine but i was wondering if it was the original. all the websites tell me it is suppose to be a cleveland, but some people on formus say it could be a windsor, I ordered a Marti Report it should be here in May so i hope it tells me if it came with a windsor or cleveland.

[leeburch1]

Hi again. You shouldn't have to wait several weeks for Marti report. Try what Jay H said about cleaning the back of the engine and find the VIN. If it matched the door and dash, then it came in the car. If not, well you've got a replacement , for whatever reason. Scrub hard, It isn't easy to find...Just git after it and see what turns up.

.

[jkhint]

I am having a hard time finding this partial vin. I have cleaned everywhere on the top of the block by the intake and bell housing. could it be any easier to find or am i just getting old and blind? does anyone have a picture of where the location? Will i have to pull the engine, take off the intake manifold, or any other obstacle to see this?

[binarybo]

Hi leeburch1, as Bill said, there were no 351-4v Windsors installed in 1970 Mustangs. If you have an "M" engine code in 1970, you got a Cleveland. it's only if you have an "H" code that it is up for grabs.

No offense, I used to wonder the same thing until I got the fact from the man with the data himself. Here is a link to his FAQ about when a Windsor was used in 1970: ::Marti Auto Works - 1955 - 1989 Ford Parts

Hi jkhint, if you have a Windsor motor, then it is not original and may not have a VIN stamped on it. Even if you did have the original motor it still may not be stamped.

I would check the casting numbers and date codes on the intake, heads and block (you have to remove the starter to see it) to help verify if it is the correct engine.

[leeburch1]

Hi BinaryBo. Thanks for straightening me out. The quench head M code is a good engine; 79/71 only. In your reference to the Marti web site did you mean to imply that there were special applications of a 4v Windsor or did I misinterpret your note? If so, wouldn't the VIN have carried a uniqe engine code other than M?
Okay, I'll stop mudding the water. Carry on, I'm outta here. Good Luck finding your engine ID.

[jkhint]

Thank you both for all the information. It will be an adventure looking at this engine.