Being new to the Mustang world, what makes a GT a GT? I bought a 68 "GT" the other day and besides the GT badges and the C stripe, I really can't see what is so different about it.
I don't even think the GT badges are original due to the fact that I can faintly see on the right front panel where the badge goes, small holes that were filled and painted that look like the rivet points for the standard Mustang script badges of the era.
Also, the car was built in late February of 68. Per the VIN its a 289, the previous owner swore up and down its a 302. I realize Ford was in transition at this time and using up whatever stock they had on the line. Should I trust the VIN or go with the common history that by December of 67 the 289 was phased out.
Hey! I have a 68 coupe that was built in late Feb also, the 21st to be exact. My VIN says 289 and it probably was but the difference between the 302 and 289 wasn't much. The previous owner of mine rebuilt the engine and had it stroked out to a 302 so you could be in the same situation.
Also I see you are in Madison, MS. I'm up in Hernando near Memphis.
Actually it was the other way around. Some 289s were built with 302 blocks. I don't think Ford ever did it the other way around. 289s with 302 blocks were done both at Cleveland AND Windsor but with different numbered blocks.
The posted link seems to not realize that 289s were made at Windsor before the 351s. I have a Windosr 289 in my garage. Ford didn't make any big deal about it or even particularly mention it but Windsor made 289s and also 302 blocks but no 302 engines.
Should I trust the VIN or go with the common history that by December of 67 the 289 was phased out.
The last 289s were change level 16's built at Windsor, site code 'E', through July 1968. Cleveland was making 302s in 68. In 69 Windsor went to 351s. If your engine tag has an 'E' then for '68 it was a 289 although possibly built with a 302 block.
I stand corrected. It was 289's in 302 blocks. The 302 block has a longer cylinder so the the piston will not wobble at the bottom of the stroke. Too much of the piston skirt would come out of the cylinder. Putting a 302 in a 289 block is bad. But putting a 289 into a 302 Block is OK.
Please correct me if I am wrong but the original Ford Small block V8 (Not to be confused with the Y Blocks) was designed and built in Windsor. And it was not until the early 60's that Cleveland started building them. The 221 and 260 were both originated in Windsor and the whole Windsor - Cleveland differentiation did not actually come into light until the 351 Cleveland was built in 1969. The Cleveland was built on the 335 platform and later turned into the 351M and 400M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy66GT
Actually it was the other way around. Some 289s were built with 302 blocks. I don't think Ford ever did it the other way around. 289s with 302 blocks were done both at Cleveland AND Windsor but with different numbered blocks.
The posted link seems to not realize that 289s were made at Windsor before the 351s. I have a Windosr 289 in my garage. Ford didn't make any big deal about it or even particularly mention it but Windsor made 289s and also 302 blocks but no 302 engines.
The 'Windsor small block' is a confusing term whose origin has a twisted history. Until mid-66 all Ford small blocks were from Cleveland so there were no 221 or 260s built at Windsor. For 66/67/68 both Cleveland and Windsor made small blocks of almost, but not exactly the same design. By 69 Windsor was producing only the 351 which had evolved from what was originally the 221 Fairlane V8. Then Cleveland designed and built an entirely different 351 which became known as the 351 Cleveland to differentiate it from the 'Windsor small block' family of engines, i.e. the 221-351W. Ironically most of the 'Windsor small blocks' had actually been produced in Cleveland years before the 351C.
Confused yet? I could understand why. For more details read the Ford Small Block V8 by Bob Mannel.
I'm still learning but I think all those details are correct. Without the charts in Mannel's book I wouldn't know what to expect. Even then, it took me a couple of edits to, hopefully, sort out the C's and W's!!
We may have lost Brandon along. Hello, are you still there?
Your original question was about the small block in a '68 GT. In '68 a GT did not have to be a 4 barrel. I believe that Mustang GTs in '68 could have had either a 289 2V (which had to come from Windsor) or a 302 4V (which would have been from Cleveland). There was no 289 4V for '68 but a few 302 2V's (also from Cleveland) might have made it through early in the year.
You didn't say whether you have a 2V or 4V engine and without more information we can't be positive that whatever you have that it was in the car originally. Unfortunately, the answer to your question depends upon all those things.
I still dont think Brandon got the answer he was looking for. I wish I knew the answer. I am re-doing a 73 Coupe, 302 2v, auto. I ran across a cool Mustang GT script decal at a swap meet for $5.00. I believe it is for a late 80's 'Stang. I'd like to use it on my car and maybe put some GT badging, But would I be wrong, out of place, or even laughed at. I believe in doing your own thing escpecially when it comes to personal Hot rods, but there are also some lines you dont cross. It would be nice to know the limits short of 'cloning'.
I still dont think Brandon got the answer he was looking for...
Could be. Since we haven't heard back from him its hard to know.
I think he had multiple questions either stated or implied:
Could a '68 be a 289 - YES, depending upon what all the tags say.
Could this engine be a 289 - Could be, it depends
Is this an original engine: Can't tell without more info
Was this a factory GT: Only Marti can tell him that. I think all the GT 'options' for 68 can be added from a current parts catalog.
If the tags and the stamped date codes are in reasonable agreement I would believe them. They were there when the car was built. The former owner likely was not.
Thanks for the responses. There are some GT options on the car but again as stated, those could have been put on by whoever, whenever and not neccessarily from the factory.
The more research I do the more I tend to believe the VIN verse the previous owner. Being there is a C in the VIN, I am sticking with a 289 verse a 302. Then again, there could be another engine in there.
I put a pic of her below... regardless of the details, I plan on enjoying her immensely. BTW.. who is Marti?
Hey! I have a 68 coupe that was built in late Feb also, the 21st to be exact. My VIN says 289 and it probably was but the difference between the 302 and 289 wasn't much. The previous owner of mine rebuilt the engine and had it stroked out to a 302 so you could be in the same situation.
Also I see you are in Madison, MS. I'm up in Hernando near Memphis.
Cool! Are you going to the Mustang Car Show in Brandon, MS in a couple of weeks?
Kevin Marti has all of the Ford records starting with 1967 until ??? If you have a 67, 68, etc., you can order a Marti Report on your car and it will tell you all about what was original for the car.
Kevin Marti has all of the Ford records starting with 1967 until ??? If you have a 67, 68, etc., you can order a Marti Report on your car and it will tell you all about what was original for the car.
The 68 gt package came with heavier suspension, dual exhaust, all the gt badging (gas cap, fenders, and your c stripe), 14 in. sport rims with gt hub caps, fog lamps, and larger shock absorbers.
What makes it a GT? 
