Which is more fun, discussing mustangs with other ford lovers, or argueing what the best cars are with chevy and mopar people? Just curious what you all think.
Discussing it with other ford guys . Chevy guys ( at least all of em I've met ) all seem to have chips on their shoulders . Like they think the ford is less of a car than a chevy . So I just talk to chevy guys while were sitting at the tree . Put down or shut up
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Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience...
I like Chevies and Mopar's too but I do definitely find that Chevy people are "down" on other makes and not very knowledgeable about Blue Oval stuff (for example one of my moron buddies insists that you can't put a 4 barrel carb on a 351c unless it has 4 barrel heads). So to save myself from getting too aggravated I prefer to talk Fords with Ford fans.
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66 Coupe - CandyApple Red, 2 barrel 289, C4.
66 Coupe - (father-daughter project). Tangier Orange, 302 with AOD, 17 inch Bullit wheels.
69 F-100 - 351c. Emerald Green Metallic paint. Still "in progress".
68 Barracuda - Rusted out project. 318 in the frame rails for now. Maybe a 360 in the future.
00 Mustang - (son's car) V6, 18 inch Saleen wheels.
Originally posted by Fordgazm Discussing it with other ford guys . Chevy guys ( at least all of em I've met ) all seem to have chips on their shoulders . Like they think the ford is less of a car than a chevy . So I just talk to chevy guys while were sitting at the tree . Put down or shut up
Oh, so I have a chip on my shoulder?
It's not that I don't value my 2 Fords (soon to be three) it's just that I have to keep a Chevy truck around to make sure they make it home!
I just love laughing at Ford guys who try to work on Chevy stuff from time-to-time and always make it more difficult on themselves because they try to work on it from a "Ford" state-of-mind. (not intended as an insult, it's just something I notice, a LOT, Fordgazm knows what I'm talking about. )
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1976 Ford Mustang II Ghia: 302 with a 600cfm Edelbrock carb, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Dynomax Blackjack headers, 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster Super 44s. RJS 11-gallon fuel cell, C4 tranny, chrome 16" pony wheels, fuzzy dice, brown vinyl half-top, and painted in the tackiest color ever (harvest gold, that's why I call it "The Goldenrod").
Also have a 2003 Dodge Ram (lightly modded daily driver/tow rig/office/dining room/home away from home/workshop... I call it "The Big Blue Dawg".)
Originally posted by Fordgazm And for the record my maro runs just fine , It's the pos truck that sux
But if you'd read the warning from Edelbrock in the first place....
Just messin' wit ya bro. And I actually am more of a Chevy guy than a Ford guy, Chevy's are just much easier to work on 95% of the time, and if I'd leave well enough alone, would never need that!
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Originally posted by Cracker289 I like Chevies and Mopar's too but I do definitely find that Chevy people are "down" on other makes and not very knowledgeable about Blue Oval stuff
It's funny you should say that... I find Ford guys in general have TONS of misconceptions about Chevrolets. Like the guys that think a Chevrolet 400 is a big-block (it's not, the 396 and 402 are big-blocks, the 400 is a small-block), think the 305 was a crappy engine (really, swap the heads and it's a damn good motor, much like some of Fords earlier Windsors) and don't have a clue as to what a GM 10-bolt, 12-bolt, or 14-bolt rear is because it isn't described in "inches").
I also laugh at all of the fox-body 5.0 guys bragging about their cars being faster and more powerful than 3rd-gen F-bodies, when, if you look at the hp/torque numbers, the F-bod is better, but GM put 2.23, 2.73, and 3.23 gears in the V8 cars, where as the Mustangs had 2.73s at the WORST. It's not the engine that's losing the race, it's the gears.
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1976 Ford Mustang II Ghia: 302 with a 600cfm Edelbrock carb, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Dynomax Blackjack headers, 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster Super 44s. RJS 11-gallon fuel cell, C4 tranny, chrome 16" pony wheels, fuzzy dice, brown vinyl half-top, and painted in the tackiest color ever (harvest gold, that's why I call it "The Goldenrod").
Also have a 2003 Dodge Ram (lightly modded daily driver/tow rig/office/dining room/home away from home/workshop... I call it "The Big Blue Dawg".)
WOW this is an intersting topic. Personally I have had at least 4 of each brand. I find that all three have there own advantages. Chevy is definatly the easy guys vehicle. GM kept it simple. "if it an't broke, don't fix it" I think as far as style goes, now days Dodge has the edge. And when it comes to trucks, my current daily driver is a 96 F-250 with 152,000 miles and never even sputtered. Plus I have dragged both a 02 cummins diesel and a 03 chevy 2500 with a 502 around in a circle. But I have loved to drive just about all of them. I even liked my toy and honda. It is nice to hear every expres there opinions.
To 74stangtogo, maybe you are right, about Ford guys not knowing anything about Chevies. I guess we each had different personal experiences. I don't agree with you about the 305 Chevy motor, you can imrpove the heads to a certain extent but the bore size prohibits big vavles. The best thing about a 305 is that a 350 will bolt right in it's place.
Talk about people not knowing a 396 is a Big Block while a 400 is a small block. When you get into the Fords it is 3 times as bad, because instead of 2 engine families (big block and small block), you got the old "Y-Block", the FE big block, the Windsor small block, the 335 series (Cleveland), and the 385 series big block. On top of that Ford didn't help, in that it took a basic 335 series and extended the deck height for the 400M and then put a big block bellhousing on it, making it actually BIGGER in external size than an FE big block. Yet it's a small block? Maybe Ford should have called them "medium" blocks. LOL.
What about BOP engines. A 350 and a 455 are the same dimensions, yet people will say they have a "455 big block" or a "350 small block". SAME BLOCK! And why did each of the BOP departments of GM need to cast their own engines anyway, that just adds confusion. Diversity makes the world go round though, right. Did you catch that series of build-ups in "PHR Magazine" last year, where they built a Chevy 454, Mopar 440, Ford 460, Buick 455, Pontiac 455, and Olds 455 for comparison? That was a great series. The only things I would have added is to maybe build a Caddy 472 and a Ford 428, since those are different blocks from what they had.
Damn I really got off topic there, sorry about that!
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66 Coupe - CandyApple Red, 2 barrel 289, C4.
66 Coupe - (father-daughter project). Tangier Orange, 302 with AOD, 17 inch Bullit wheels.
69 F-100 - 351c. Emerald Green Metallic paint. Still "in progress".
68 Barracuda - Rusted out project. 318 in the frame rails for now. Maybe a 360 in the future.
00 Mustang - (son's car) V6, 18 inch Saleen wheels.
Originally posted by Cracker289 To 74stangtogo, maybe you are right, about Ford guys not knowing anything about Chevies. I guess we each had different personal experiences. I don't agree with you about the 305 Chevy motor, you can imrpove the heads to a certain extent but the bore size prohibits big vavles. The best thing about a 305 is that a 350 will bolt right in it's place.
Talk about people not knowing a 396 is a Big Block while a 400 is a small block. When you get into the Fords it is 3 times as bad, because instead of 2 engine families (big block and small block), you got the old "Y-Block", the FE big block, the Windsor small block, the 335 series (Cleveland), and the 385 series big block. On top of that Ford didn't help, in that it took a basic 335 series and extended the deck height for the 400M and then put a big block bellhousing on it, making it actually BIGGER in external size than an FE big block. Yet it's a small block? Maybe Ford should have called them "medium" blocks. LOL.
What about BOP engines. A 350 and a 455 are the same dimensions, yet people will say they have a "455 big block" or a "350 small block". SAME BLOCK! And why did each of the BOP departments of GM need to cast their own engines anyway, that just adds confusion. Diversity makes the world go round though, right. Did you catch that series of build-ups in "PHR Magazine" last year, where they built a Chevy 454, Mopar 440, Ford 460, Buick 455, Pontiac 455, and Olds 455 for comparison? That was a great series. The only things I would have added is to maybe build a Caddy 472 and a Ford 428, since those are different blocks from what they had.
Damn I really got off topic there, sorry about that!
lol, Ford's myriad of engine families is confusing enough that even FORD guys don't know/understand most of them. I know of the:
Flatheads
Windsors (221, 255, 260, 289, 302, 351)
Cleveland (351)
Cleveland Modified (351M, 400M)
Y-block (312, and I think there was another)
Ford-Edsel aka "FE" series (390, 427, 428, and I believe there was another smaller than the 390, can't remember, but I think it was the 352)
385-series (370, 429, 460)
FE-SOHC (427SOHC)
ModularSB: 4.6SOHC, 4.6DOHC (also split AGAIN into Windsor and Romeo classes)
ModularBB: 5.4 (again, split Windsor/Romeo)
And even the Pontiac, Buick, and Olds guys have a hard time keeping all of THEIR engines straight, not to mention Cadillac and GMC's older engines.
(in case you haven't noticed, I REALLY love carrying on this debate with any and everybody, ask Fordgazm, he'll tell yeah. )
And the best thing about the 305 isn't that you can put a 350 in it's place, it's that you can put a Chevrolet 302, 307, 327, or 400 in it's place! The 350 is WAY over-rated, until you punch it out to at least 355 cubes, you're not accomplishing anything powerwise that wasn't done 30-40 years ago.
Also, and I KNOW I'll catch flack for saying this, but the best thing about a 302 is that the 289 bolts in it's place, the 289's just tougher, revs higher, and has a distinctive sound that no other Ford engine can match when you rev on it.
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1976 Ford Mustang II Ghia: 302 with a 600cfm Edelbrock carb, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Dynomax Blackjack headers, 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster Super 44s. RJS 11-gallon fuel cell, C4 tranny, chrome 16" pony wheels, fuzzy dice, brown vinyl half-top, and painted in the tackiest color ever (harvest gold, that's why I call it "The Goldenrod").
Also have a 2003 Dodge Ram (lightly modded daily driver/tow rig/office/dining room/home away from home/workshop... I call it "The Big Blue Dawg".)
Partially true Matt , except for the 87-92 5.0 engines . They have roller cams , forged pistons , and double roller timing chains from the factory . I would take that over a stock 289 any day . I love the 289 as well .
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Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience...
Originally posted by Fordgazm Partially true Matt , except for the 87-92 5.0 engines . They have roller cams , forged pistons , and double roller timing chains from the factory . I would take that over a stock 289 any day . I love the 289 as well .
better yet, put the 87-95 5.0 top-end on a 289 short-block, THEN you've got one serious little high-revvin' V8.
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1976 Ford Mustang II Ghia: 302 with a 600cfm Edelbrock carb, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Dynomax Blackjack headers, 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster Super 44s. RJS 11-gallon fuel cell, C4 tranny, chrome 16" pony wheels, fuzzy dice, brown vinyl half-top, and painted in the tackiest color ever (harvest gold, that's why I call it "The Goldenrod").
Also have a 2003 Dodge Ram (lightly modded daily driver/tow rig/office/dining room/home away from home/workshop... I call it "The Big Blue Dawg".)
The FE big blocks that you mentioned actually started at 332 cubic inches.. Then 352, then 360, then 390, then 406,and 428. But who could forget the 427, a friend of mine who is at least 20 years older than I am remembers one that was raced in Puxatawny PA when he was a kid (mid 60's I would guess) that overhead cams on it. He said the cams were chain driven off the front of the engine, each chain must have been 5 feet long after you figure how far it has to travel.
PS I was impressed when you mentioned the Chevy engines because I just KNEW you were gonna forget the W blocks (348 and 409), but you didn't. Which reminds me, the 409 is the only ENGINE I know of to have a pop song written about it..
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66 Coupe - CandyApple Red, 2 barrel 289, C4.
66 Coupe - (father-daughter project). Tangier Orange, 302 with AOD, 17 inch Bullit wheels.
69 F-100 - 351c. Emerald Green Metallic paint. Still "in progress".
68 Barracuda - Rusted out project. 318 in the frame rails for now. Maybe a 360 in the future.
00 Mustang - (son's car) V6, 18 inch Saleen wheels.
Just as a note, Ford has manufactured 4 different engines with a 4 inch bore and 3.5 inch stroke..
351W
351M
351C
352 (FE)
Why did they need to make it so confusing?
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66 Coupe - CandyApple Red, 2 barrel 289, C4.
66 Coupe - (father-daughter project). Tangier Orange, 302 with AOD, 17 inch Bullit wheels.
69 F-100 - 351c. Emerald Green Metallic paint. Still "in progress".
68 Barracuda - Rusted out project. 318 in the frame rails for now. Maybe a 360 in the future.
00 Mustang - (son's car) V6, 18 inch Saleen wheels.
Most of the books I have read about 351s say the M doesn't really mean anything. It was just put there to indicate where it was made. I have also had a few folks I knew that worked ford assembly lines say the same thing. Does any one have any evidence to suggest other wise. I mean you can tell the diffrence betweena a C and a W by looking, but what about an M. What is the diffrence?
argue or discuss? 
